Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[swake]

One could hope, but there's nothing to keep people from short-cutting from 71st to the mall unless they blocked Elwood from the peak of Elwood Hill to east of the Mall.  Other than some property entrances and the water tower, there's nothing else which needs access from the road after the neighborhood to the west of the Turkey Mountain park entrance. 

The city should disconnect 61st from Elwood, take out part of the curve at the top. They close it constantly for bad weather anyway.

[Nik]

I took the Premium Outlets in Allen, TX and put that on top of 61st & Hwy 75 just to get a sense of scale. Based on some talk here, this may be a bit further south than the proposed site, but you still get the idea of the footprint this will have.

[Conan71]

How many square feet is the Premium Outlets?  I believe they said this one will be 800,000 square feet.

[swake]

I took the Premium Outlets in Allen, TX and put that on top of 61st & Hwy 75 just to get a sense of scale. Based on some talk here, this may be a bit further south than the proposed site, but you still get the idea of the footprint this will have.

That thing in Allen is just a god awful development. Thankfully, I don't think that can do that square thing on this narrow plot of land.

[charky]

The existing Turkey Mountain trails...and what would be (roughly) lost.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well, they milked Eastland to death - doing nothing to make it a more user friendly place, like keep the gangsters out.  And Woodland Hills is just a shining example of what a mall should be.  This should be great!!

[rebound]

Thanks Charky,  I still haven't figured out how to pics here.   In my earlier post, I mentioned all the "unofficial" Turkey Mountain area that I was/am worried about.  If you draw a line over from 61st East to where it intersects with Powerline,  all of the area in that NW quadrant is not part of the official TM area.  It was good to hear about Kaiser's possible involvement, but unless/until this larger boundary becomes official, there should remain a lot of concern over the future of TM.

[Conan71]

It's creating a crap storm on social media from frequent trail users.  Curious if this is a "done" deal or if the council can intervene.  As Swake alluded to, there are some seriously expensive infrastructure issues which will need to be addressed to accommodate this.  If they get a TIF and the city or county end up paying for the improvements as an incentive, how long does it take for this to really be a worthy investment?

[SXSW]

It's creating a crap storm on social media from frequent trail users.  Curious if this is a "done" deal or if the council can intervene.  As Swake alluded to, there are some seriously expensive infrastructure issues which will need to be addressed to accommodate this.  If they get a TIF and the city or county end up paying for the improvements as an incentive, how long does it take for this to really be a worthy investment?

That's what I've seen, and there will be significant mobilization to shoot this down.  And I completely agree.  Nothing should be built in this area, it should remain part of the Turkey Mountain wilderness.  Let them build their crap somewhere else.

Turkey Mountain is one of the city's best assets and shouldn't have part of it eaten up, or even abutting it, by an outlet mall. 

[Vision 2025]

It's creating a crap storm on social media from frequent trail users.  Curious if this is a "done" deal or if the council can intervene.  As Swake alluded to, there are some seriously expensive infrastructure issues which will need to be addressed to accommodate this.  If they get a TIF and the city or county end up paying for the improvements as an incentive, how long does it take for this to really be a worthy investment?

Anybody suggesting to pass the hat and purchase the property, it's been on the market a LONG time

[Conan71]

Anybody suggesting to pass the hat and purchase the property, it's been on the market a LONG time

If the seller is who we think he is, he doesn't need the money.  It's not like this is a huge surprise, they cleared the south end of this plot a year or so back.

[Nik]

How many square feet is the Premium Outlets?  I believe they said this one will be 800,000 square feet.

Allen Premium Outlets is 458,000 sq ft

[cynical]

It doesn't matter who the owner is. If private property (which this is) is taken for public use, the owner must be compensated for the value of the property taken according to its highest and best use. The highly simplified rule is that a "taking" of private property occurs whenever the government prevents the property owner from economic use of the property. Since any economic development of this tract would require multiple trail closures, preservation of trail access would result in a taking by any standard and would result in the government having to pay damages. What do you think the odds are that the troops can convince the city or the county, as the case may be, to part with several hundred thousand dollars so that the trails which have been permitted to cross this property can remain in place? Of course the owner could donate the property to the RPA or whoever owns the Turkey Mountain park, but based on the River Parks drawings, I suspect that it is separated from the publicly owned park by additional private property.

I'm skeptical.

If the seller is who we think he is, he doesn't need the money.  It's not like this is a huge surprise, they cleared the south end of this plot a year or so back.

[Conan71]

It doesn't matter who the owner is. If private property (which this is) is taken for public use, the owner must be compensated for the value of the property taken according to its highest and best use. The highly simplified rule is that a "taking" of private property occurs whenever the government prevents the property owner from economic use of the property. Since any economic development of this tract would require multiple trail closures, preservation of trail access would result in a taking by any standard and would result in the government having to pay damages. What do you think the odds are that the troops can convince the city or the county, as the case may be, to part with several hundred thousand dollars so that the trails which have been permitted to cross this property can remain in place? Of course the owner could donate the property to the RPA or whoever owns the Turkey Mountain park, but based on the River Parks drawings, I suspect that it is separated from the publicly owned park by additional private property.

I'm skeptical.

My two points were: it appears the owner of the property is the wealthiest man in Tulsa.  He doesn't need the money from the sale.  My other point was, you have to get zoning approval because this will necessarily cause a huge clusterfark with the existing roadways in the area.  I certainly don't advocate government seizure of private property if that's what you thought I was saying, I do advocate smart zoning.  Certainly the planning commission can refuse to permit zoning for a specific purpose if it would be a disruption to the surrounding area or required an incredibly expensive infrastructure update.  Something with this traffic volume will require that.

One silver lining someone posted on Facebook is it could provide better parking for trail access on the westerly part of the trail system.  As popular as the trail system has become, finding parking at the base parking lot is impossible on most Saturdays and Sundays and even some weeknights.

[Stanley1]

Turkey Mountain is one of the city's best assets and shouldn't have part of it eaten up, or even abutting it, by an outlet mall.  

That is crazy.  Sorry, but it is.  Nobody moves to Tulsa or visits Tulsa b/c of Turkey Mountain.

While they may not be "wilderness" trails, Tulsa has WAY more than necessary trails for bikers and runners throughout the city.  And with the Gathering Place, and the trails it will create, taking away a corner of Turkey Mountain isn't going to hurt anything.