Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[guido911]

I remember the advertised prices at the outlet mall in Stroud as not being worth the drive there for how much I intended to purchase.  What is the real attraction for the outlet malls?

That's about the only place my wife and I go anymore to buy clothes/shoes for ourselves (Branson) They are a lot cheaper there. But satay away from the Polo outlet. No real deals there. 

[Conan71]

That's about the only place my wife and I go anymore to buy clothes/shoes for ourselves (Branson) They are a lot cheaper there. But satay away from the Polo outlet. No real deals there.  

Ross or Marshall so long as you make sure you aren't buying that pair of jeans meant for a third leg.   

[saintnicster]

Has he reneged?
Article has been removed

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/kaiser-foundation-says-it-will-preserve-its-turkey-mountain-property/article_96032e5c-2e54-11e4-9c2f-0017a43b2370.html

The TulsaWorld doesn't believe in permalinks :/

[heironymouspasparagus]

Who knew Conan was a closeted environmentalist and big government/regulatory lib.    To be clear, I am not up for calling people freeloaders, particularly in this area/context since I want cyclists to have something other than our busy streets for their activity. But when folks start messing with private property rights, and want to use government to limit/prohibit those rights, then there is a huge problem with me.

You do realize that ALL property rights have derived from the government.... for many, many centuries...millennia...??   (Again, the whole sense and knowledge of history thing.)

When the European monarchs won their wars - they, and since they were the government, owned all the property.  Royal grants of property were made to supporters as reward for their help.  When this country was founded, it was all based on grants by the English crown (and French and Spanish, etc) to groups of people and companies to come here to steal it from the natives and create economic endeavors that would enrich the home country.  Property rights were granted again by the crown.

When our revolution was fought, the state and federal govts then assumed all the rights and privileges of the crown - took some time and various iterations, but we finally got a compromise Constitution that everyone could agree to be mildly pissed about rather than ready to tear out other peoples throats.  And our ancestors agreed to this contract.

So, when movement west happened, the govt was the entity that assumed title to all lands - remember the Louisiana Purchase?  Govt bought it and granted property concessions.  Sending the army to exterminate the natives - well, that means the conquered territories, by definition belonged to the govt.  Wars with Spain to take Florida, Puerto Rico, Phillipines.  Literally from the east coast to the west and beyond.  And then we just bought Alaska from Russia.  And you know that's gotta be a burr under their saddle!!

And Texas stole most of that state from Mexico, and decided to join the US - THAT became part of the contract.  Wars of conquest (imperialistic voyeurism) with Mexico took California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, etc away from them.  (So, how is it we think we are so righteous and become so "morally indignant" about some of them trying to come back here to work...??  Rationalizations.)

This is one way the various govt entities rationalize property taxes, and taxes of all kinds.  It is our "tribute" to the various "crowns" - governments, federal, state, and local.

Your so-called "personal property rights" are, and always have been, by definition - conditional.   Just because you have a "huge problem" doesn't mean it is valid - 'cause it really isn't.

[sgrizzle]

I remember the advertised prices at the outlet mall in Stroud as not being worth the drive there for how much I intended to purchase.  What is the real attraction for the outlet malls?

First attraction: Price
In the modern day outlet malls, the front 50-75% of many stores is a standard retail store, the real "outlet" is only the back portion of the store. In others, the whole store is an outlet. Major brands rotate their stock throughout the year. When nike comes out with the new zigzag air fusion 5000, they sent all the 4000's to their outlet stores. Generally at a markdown of 30-50%. In addition, the outlet stores often run sales on top of the outlet prices (buy one get one half off for example)

So, say you buy $100 Nikes normally (round number for easy math, I'm not judging you as a person). Last year's models are 30-50% off, so say $50-$70. Then you add the sale, you can get two pairs for $75-$105 instead of just one pair for $100.

Because it's old stock, you have a lower chance of finding what you want in your size, but you can still get pretty good discounts.

Second attraction: Selection
Many of these brand stores may not have an equivalent "regular store" in your area. There are some brands my wife buys for my kids that have no retail store in Oklahoma other than the outlet store. For other brands, like Skechers for example, you get a wider selection of their products at their dedicated outlet store than you get buying Skechers at department or shoe store.

[Stanley1]

My response to all the comments about "the new wearing off" of the outlet mall is this, have you ever seen any of the semi-local outlet malls empty?  Or shut down for any reason other than being demolished in a tornado (Stroud)?

The one in OKC is too new to judge.  But the one in Allen, TX is doing fine.  I believe there is one in Gainsville(?), TX as well, that seems to be doing fine.  I've past others in Missouri (I think) that seem to be doing fine.

I don't get the attraction either, but they are always busy, and Tulsa currently has citizens that make the drive to other towns or states to shop at these places.  That tells me all I need to know about successful one would be here.

[DowntownDan]

The one in Gainesville is on its last leg.  It's a ghost town.  The food court is creepy as hell.  Not sure why, you would think that there would be plenty or room for it in addition to Allen, but for whatever reason, it seems inevitable to go under.

[heironymouspasparagus]

My response to all the comments about "the new wearing off" of the outlet mall is this, have you ever seen any of the semi-local outlet malls empty?  Or shut down for any reason other than being demolished in a tornado (Stroud)?

The one in OKC is too new to judge.  But the one in Allen, TX is doing fine.  I believe there is one in Gainsville(?), TX as well, that seems to be doing fine.  I've past others in Missouri (I think) that seem to be doing fine.

I don't get the attraction either, but they are always busy, and Tulsa currently has citizens that make the drive to other towns or states to shop at these places.  That tells me all I need to know about successful one would be here.

Not just outlet malls - strip centers in general.  Fairly new version - Riverwalk.

Hopefully it will resurrect...we always enjoyed going over there.

[YoungTulsan]

There was an outlet mall in Broken Arrow during the 80s that shut down.   It is now the Church @ Battle Creek.   I tried doing a google maps link but the forum breaks it.   On Aspen between 51st and the BA.

[DTowner]

Further thoughts on the "lease" that Simon has signed seems nothing more than a way to tie up the property while they draft the concept drawings and hit the road to sign on tenants.  Sounds like the rival group wanting to put a mall in at I-44/244 in east Tulsa is competing for the same tenants.  They are the same developer who developed the outlet mall on I-40 near Council Road in OKC.  In other words, if that group can get the big draws like Nike, Coach, or whomever else.  The more I read of this, I seriously doubt Simon can attract 800,000 square feet of tenants, especially ones who they claim Tulsa would be their only Oklahoma location.  This is not simple on/off access parallel to the major interstate like the outlet malls in so many other areas.

I have my doubts this will really happen.

Seems highly unlikely both outlet malls will be built.  As I recall, the prospective developer for the potential I-44/I-244 mall wants a TIF for the area.  I don't think Simon is asking for anything like that, although as mentioned my many some serious infrastructure improvements to Hwy 75/61st would be necessary.  I would guess Simon would have at least a 50/50 chance of beating out the competitor for tenants.

Either location is ok by me.  Although I prefer the I-44/I-244 location because I think it would better tap into the Hard Rock/NW Ark markets and that area could use some economic vitality, the idea of yet another TIF is a big drawback.

[SXSW]

So for those that don't want to see this by Turkey Mtn hope that the other outlet mall is built first. 

I honestly don't see the attractiveness for retail north of 71st along 75.  71st to 91st, definitely and I think that area will continue to build up as a retail center for the southwest metro.  Right now most of the residential growth is along and west of Elwood from 71st to 81st but I wonder where it will eventually expand?  East of Elwood?  North of 71st and west of Turkey Mtn?  That would be a desirable area to live being close to the trails and near 75.  Build another Jenks ES and watch it boom.

[Red Arrow]

East of Elwood?  

I think some of the property owners east of Elwood and north of the airport have delusions of riches from the Airport Authority.

http://goo.gl/maps/vcFdr

[YoungTulsan]

Doesn't that spot flood every time we get an inch of rain?

[guido911]

Ross or Marshall so long as you make sure you aren't buying that pair of jeans meant for a third leg.   

Used to shop Ross all the time for clothes for myself. Still do on occasion.

[Red Arrow]

Doesn't that spot flood every time we get an inch of rain?

Along 81st it floods easily.  North along Elwood is higher ground.

Floodplains haven't stopped development before.  They just get flood insurance so we can all share in the loss.