Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[Hoss]

That chicken is desperately trying to scream for help. Isn't there a law in Oklahoma that says you can't choke your chicken while on a bike dressed in spandex?

Make sure Paul Tay knows this...

[Conan71]

Make sure Paul Tay knows this...

His penis er chicken is always behind him on the bike.  At least when he's riding around as Santa.  

Dear God, did I really just channel that?  Where's that Slurpee straw???

[AquaMan]

Thanks for the stereotype! 

Sometimes folks use the word stereotype to hide the truth. Oakland is industrial. West Tulsa is too. In fact most of the fringes of any city are where the real physical work is occurring.  No negative judgement inferred. Driving in from OKC is visual confirmation. Working west of the river is physical confirmation. The shame is that those fringe areas have the most dramatic and enjoyable topography and the least restrictive zoning.

[AquaMan]

Angie, let me make these notes. I work over there with a load of Westies. Not far from Conan. I deliver west side school children to the schools, I navigate the back roads and highways. I love the area and its small town feel. It is spread out from the refineries and Chandler Hill on one end, TM and Tulsa Hills on its south and West to the Turnpike.  It has some upscale neighborhoods and rural gentry. You can keep a horse, chickens, goats and a donkey in neighborhoods over by Redfork yet live the suburban life in hill top Berryhill next to TCC.  It is my opinion that its core is (proudly) blue collar.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Thanks for the stereotype! 

You should hear the stereotypes that circulated about Sand Springs when I was a kid....

I spent a lot of time in younger days in Redfork, and west along the line... I liked it a lot and always felt like I fit in better there than most areas of town (never really felt comfortable in Maple Ridge, for example...still don't, even though have good friends that live there.)  Had occasion to work back over in Redfork for a while a few years ago....still felt more comfortable.  There have been some good companies grow out west in the last 25 years...could use more!  I suspect a bunch of new minimum wage fast-food type jobs aren't gonna help all that much (Simon Malls).

[AquaMan]

Yet, you can see why Simon is enthused about that location. The folks who populate TM are likely not Westies. West Tulsa will shop Tulsa Hillls but aren't as comfortable there as in an Outlet Mall. I don't like the idea but the demographics are enticing to them.

That land has been available for over 30 years. In true Tulsa fashion, no one wanted it because of adjacent subsidized housing, and low demographic potential. Now someone attempts to capitalize on those two characteristics and we're stunned?

[AngieB]

Yet, you can see why Simon is enthused about that location. The folks who populate TM are likely not Westies. West Tulsa will shop Tulsa Hillls but aren't as comfortable there as in an Outlet Mall. I don't like the idea but the demographics are enticing to them.

That land has been available for over 30 years. In true Tulsa fashion, no one wanted it because of adjacent subsidized housing, and low demographic potential. Now someone attempts to capitalize on those two characteristics and we're stunned?

OMG. I really don't have any idea how to respond to this. We're all just poor white trash from the westside who aren't interested in fitness or outdoor activity? We'll be more comfortable shopping the outlet mall than Tulsa Hills? W  T  F   does that even mean? Are Target and Belk too fancy for us?  

[Conan71]

Yet, you can see why Simon is enthused about that location. The folks who populate TM are likely not Westies. West Tulsa will shop Tulsa Hillls but aren't as comfortable there as in an Outlet Mall. I don't like the idea but the demographics are enticing to them.

That land has been available for over 30 years. In true Tulsa fashion, no one wanted it because of adjacent subsidized housing, and low demographic potential. Now someone attempts to capitalize on those two characteristics and we're stunned?

If "Westies" were generally po' folk, Turkey Mountain is the cheapest form of recreation on the west side.

Simon doesn't care about the local demographic.  Outlet malls depend on 50%+ of their revenue coming from outside the local area so that it is a destination and people will feel compelled to spend more in one trip rather than it being a simple 15 minute jaunt to the store and back.

Not my speculation- this is the industry in it's own words.

[heironymouspasparagus]

OMG. I really don't have any idea how to respond to this. We're all just poor white trash from the westside who aren't interested in fitness or outdoor activity? We'll be more comfortable shopping the outlet mall than Tulsa Hills? W  T  F   does that even mean? Are Target and Belk too fancy for us?  

Give 'em hell, girl!!


Not sure Target and Belk are that great an example for "fancy", though...  Not sure what fancy and upscale really is in this area, but I know it ain't those or Macy's and the like.

[AngieB]

Give 'em hell, girl!!


Not sure Target and Belk are that great an example for "fancy", though...  Not sure what fancy and upscale really is in this area, but I know it ain't those or Macy's and the like.

That's the point!

[swake]

Aqua needs to check the price tag on the houses going up all around Tulsa Hills, they start at about $350k.

[AquaMan]

Geez. Take a breath and a sip of something like tea. It calms you, enervates your grey matter and even helps lose that West Tulsa belly fat!

Tulsa Hills is not "West" Tulsa. South West would be accurate. To include them as West would be analogous to including northwest areas like Gilcrease Hills and Osage Casino as West Tulsa. Yes, people from all over Tulsa shop TH but it isn't jammed with trucks, horse trailers and welding rigs.

Going north of 71st to 23rd street and west of the river to the turnpike gates is west. Throw in the little pocket north of 23rd that includes the OSU medical college and West Bank.  This isn't a real upper demographic area. There are no Utica Square shopping centers, no Whole Foods and no Targets. Not even a WalMart till you get to Sand Springs! So, any upscale, young, healthy oriented consumers are likely crossing the river or heading down 71st from 75 to fill their needs. Not at Family/Warehouse Mkt. Not Goodwill. Not Arnold's Hamburgers.

I am familiar with how Outlet Malls are located, built, fail and then keep popping up. One of their criteria is truck registrations. That totally misled them with their location in Broken Arrow. They always figure that traffic will come from outside their region but their failure rate argues against that. I suspect they make money attracting investors, grabbing up tax incentives, building these things then moving on.

Angela, white trash is all over Tulsa, West Tulsa doesn't have a lock on that but they have their share. For once just step outside yourselves and look at this from a developers viewpoint. They don't live here. They invest here and we hold that process in reverence. Me personally, I think it sucks to have that type of development near a popular and growing outdoor recreation area. I didn't like it when huge areas of riverfront were defiled by cement companies, trucking companies, sand mining, injection wells and even strip mining over by Chandler Park. But no one went ballistic when those privately owned lands were abused. That is the nature of private ownership rights and created jobs.

Now it gets close to southern civilization and its different? I have to agree with Guido on this. Buy the land, forbid tax incentives for them or get used to the idea that not everyone gives a flip about trails, bikes, running, exploring, and beauty.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Angela, white trash is all over Tulsa, West Tulsa doesn't have a lock on that but they have their share. For once just step outside yourselves and look at this from a developers viewpoint. They don't live here. They invest here and we hold that process in reverence. Me personally, I think it sucks to have that type of development near a popular and growing outdoor recreation area. I didn't like it when huge areas of riverfront were defiled by cement companies, trucking companies, sand mining, injection wells and even strip mining over by Chandler Park. But no one went ballistic when those privately owned lands were abused. That is the nature of private ownership rights and created jobs.

Now it gets close to southern civilization and its different? I have to agree with Guido on this. Buy the land, forbid tax incentives for them or get used to the idea that not everyone gives a flip about trails, bikes, running, exploring, and beauty.

Truth about that - trash all over Tulsa and suburbs - there is a small pocket of white trash I know of in Broken Arrow that spawned from gated entitlement communities in Tulsa, so previous generation performance is no indicator, either.

And just being in that whole area of Redfork and surrounds doesn't mean it is poor "white trash".... mostly it is poor, but by no means trash.

The southwest Tulsans are getting all in an uproar kinda like the 96th street south Tulsans did when DOT wanted to put the free bypass in and got all whiny about it even though they knew for decades that was where it was gonna be (what became the Creek Turnpike).

[AngieB]

I give up. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

I give up. 

NO!!  Don't give up!!!  Hang in there!  You are doing great!  There's nothing wrong with west Tulsa that isn't at least as wrong (or worse) anywhere else in town.