Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[dsjeffries]

I don't think there is a parcel large enough to accommodate Simon at the river.  One of the Simon VPs related to me that they their standard low-density sprawling one-floor suburban parking model needed 35 to 37 acres at a minimum.  I don't think there's that much acreage available along the west bank without shutting down trails, the refinery, or other commercial/residential sites.

Fixed it.

[swake]

I don't think there is a parcel large enough to accommodate Simon at the river.  One of the Simon VPs related to me that they needed 35 to 37 acres at a minimum.  I don't think there's that much acreage available along the west bank without shutting down trails, the refinery, or other commercial/residential sites.

Structured parking paid for by a TIFF fixes all that.

[Conan71]

It's finally official, Simon is bugging out and pursuing the Jenks site:

http://www.tulsafrontier.com/developer-scraps-plans-for-outlet-mall-near-turkey-mountain/

Developer scraps plans for outlet mall near Turkey Mountain

07.20.2015 | Kevin Canfield | Government
By KEVIN CANFIELD
The Frontier

Simon Property Group has pulled its zoning application to build an outlet mall at West 61st Street and Highway 75 near Turkey Mountain.

The company notified the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission of its decision this morning. Simon was scheduled to appear before the Planning Commission on Aug. 19.

Tulsa City Manager Jim Twombly said Simon notified the city of it decision.

"They did give us call and let us know," Twombly said. "At the same time they said, 'keep in touch,' and they still have an interest in the Highway 75 corridor.

"But they did say they are pursuing the Jenks site."

The retail giant announced plans last year to build Premium Outlet Mall on 48 acres of private property on the northeast corner of U.S. 75 and West 61st Street near Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness Area.

The proposal drew strong opposition from Turkey Mountain enthusiasts and luke-warm support from city councilors.

In May, city officials in Jenks announced that Simon had decided to move the project south to land across the Creek Turnpike from the Oklahoma Aquarium. But neither Simon nor the city of Jenks has commented on the possible move since.

Tulsa officials responded to that news by intensifying their efforts to keep the mall in the city.

Twombly had said previously that city officials were speaking weekly with Simon to assist in finding a suitable location along the Highway 75 corridor between 61st and 81st streets.

Kevin@readfrontier.com
918-645-5452

Posted in Government

[cynical]

Since the application never got to the point of being decided, it appears to me that the developer has waived any claim for inverse condemnation, quite possibly on behalf of itself and the landowner.

Now that the heat is off, will the proponents of including this property in the park continue their efforts? It might seem like a good time to relax, but if you really want to lock down this land, keep going. I wouldn't count on things ever being the same as they were.

[Conan71]

Since the application never got to the point of being decided, it appears to me that the developer has waived any claim for inverse condemnation, quite possibly on behalf of itself and the landowner.

Now that the heat is off, will the proponents of including this property in the park continue their efforts? It might seem like a good time to relax, but if you really want to lock down this land, keep going. I wouldn't count on things ever being the same as they were.

Absolutely the efforts will continue.  There's been discussions with potential donors who have taken a wait-and-see attitude until Simon finally did something official on this land.  Expect to see news in the very short future about TUWC pushing ahead on fund-raising efforts.  TUWC already has an account specifically for land acquisition set up with Tulsa Community Foundation and the 501(c)(3) status was approved a couple of months ago by the IRS.

[DowntownDan]

I still think that the one planned near the Hard Rock Casino will be the only one built.  There is no way more than one outlet mall is necessary or feasible, and theirs seems to have the best existing infrastructure, roads, hotels, and demographics make sense.  A lot of the out of town casino crowd will probably do outlet shopping as well, and might attract people mainly for the outlet mall that stay for the casino.  It's unfortunate that the City of Tulsa loses sales taxes, but their plan seems to be the farthest along and to make the most sense.

[SouthTulsaCountyDude]

..... but their plan seems to be the farthest along and to make the most sense.

farthest along?    How?   Where have you seen or heard that?  Have heard very little progress on it. 

[DowntownDan]

farthest along?    How?   Where have you seen or heard that?  Have heard very little progress on it. 

I saw some plans a few months ago, actual plans, renderings, plans for reconfiguring the golf course, etc.  They aren't in the Simon mess of having chosen the dumbest site possible and having to start over.  I saw something on the East Tulsa development a few months ago but it didn't seem very far along.  Maybe I'm wrong on it, but I  don't see how Simon is going to win having to start over and now pursuing another bad site, at least in my opinion it's a poor site and a waste of river side property.

[swake]

I saw some plans a few months ago, actual plans, renderings, plans for reconfiguring the golf course, etc.  They aren't in the Simon mess of having chosen the dumbest site possible and having to start over.  I saw something on the East Tulsa development a few months ago but it didn't seem very far along.  Maybe I'm wrong on it, but I  don't see how Simon is going to win having to start over and now pursuing another bad site, at least in my opinion it's a poor site and a waste of river side property.

Plans like this from two months ago?



Jenks is a top 10 or so wealthiest zip code in the state and the location is directly across the river from the number one wealthiest zip code. It sits directly next to a six lane expressway and the improved streets and highway exit were already voted on and approved and work starts on them in the next few weeks.

I would have preferred a location at 23rd on the west bank, but for an outlet mall this is hardly a bad location.

As for Catoosa and East Tulsa, the companies looking to build outlet malls at those locations are small companies. Woodmont in Catoosa is a privately held Texas real estate company that owns and/or manages 15 million square feet of space. Horizon in East Tulsa (also the owner of the OKC outlet mall) is a publicly traded REIT with a market cap of $15 million.

Simon is North America's largest commercial property company that owns and manages some 240 million square feet of commercial real estate and has a market cap of $57 billion.

There's nothing wrong with the other two projects or the companies behind them, but once Simon comes into the mix the others are going to lose. Tulsa can only have one outlet mall and if Simon wants this market, they will get it.

[swake]

We will now have a lot of attractions in the same general area, Margaritaville Casino and Resort, The Oklahoma Aquarium, the outlet shops, Jenks' Main Street antique stores, and Riverwalk with I Fly (Top Golf type place) and restaurants. I see many new hotels in the area soon.

[Conan71]

Simon is the big gorilla in the mall business.  Some retailers are tired of their heavy-handed tactics, and yet, others like the predictability of what they get for their rent.  Those who are disenchanted are why companies like Tanger, Woodmont, Taubman, and Horizon have managed to carve out a small percentage of outlet malls here and there.

Simon's proposed site in Jenks makes a ton of sense, as it's on a spur from an Interstate and it's fairly intuitive to find for travelers coming from NWA and eastern Oklahoma.  As Swake says, there's plenty of other attractions in the area that can make this a really good destination.  That's assuming Simon really plans to build in the area.  I still wish they would have taken a more serious look when Skip Steele had shown them the east Tulsa site three years ago.

From what I understand, Dewby is still insisting that Simon is interested in either trying to partner with Horizon or in one of the other sites the city has suggested.  I highly recommend the city jump on the Horizon train and get behind it if they really want the sales tax dollars.  If COT still thinks they have a shot, they are delusional.  His office apparently not researched Simon's sneaky tactics near as close as I have over the last year.

[sgrizzle]

Simon is the big gorilla in the mall business.  Some retailers are tired of their heavy-handed tactics, and yet, others like the predictability of what they get for their rent.  Those who are disenchanted are why companies like Tanger, Woodmont, Taubman, and Horizon have managed to carve out a small percentage of outlet malls here and there.

Simon's proposed site in Jenks makes a ton of sense, as it's on a spur from an Interstate Turnpike and it's fairly intuitive to find for travelers coming from NWA and eastern Oklahoma now that the turnpike has a number.  As Swake says, there's plenty of other attractions in the area that can make this a really good destination.  That's assuming Simon really plans to build in the area.  I still wish they would have taken a more serious look when Skip Steele had shown them the east Tulsa site three years ago.

From what I understand, Dewby is still insisting that Simon is interested in either trying to partner with Horizon or in one of the other sites the city has suggested.  I highly recommend the city jump on the Horizon train and get behind it if they really want the sales tax dollars.  If COT still thinks they have a shot, they are delusional.  His office apparently not researched Simon's sneaky tactics near as close as I have over the last year.

FIFY

[Conan71]

FIFY

"264" AKA The Creek Turnpike is a semi/sort-of spur from Interstate 44, that is what I was referencing.  The chosen site in Jenks would not be a "spur" from the turnpike/264 or whatever we want to call it.  YMMV.  

[Hoss]

"264" AKA The Creek Turnpike is a semi/sort-of spur from Interstate 44, that is what I was referencing.  The chosen site in Jenks would not be a "spur" from the turnpike/264 or whatever we want to call it.  YMMV.  

364.    They're calling the Muskogee turnpike 351.  Probably only a matter of time before they name the Indian Nation 375.

[Breadburner]

They should build it in the middle of the river....Now...what could they call it.......