New Office & Residential Towers Proposed (OKC)

[modernism]

OKC's new streetcar route will run right in front of this great development.

[heyerdahl]

Suburban as in auto oriented versus urban=pedestrian/transit friendly.  Doesn't matter how tall it is or where it's located, if the design caters to the automobile and not the pedestrian, then it's suburban. The Philtower and Mayo Hotel lofts in Tulsa are urban.  Up to the sidewalks, the buildings are part of the urban, pedestrian friendly fabric of downtown and positively contribute to that fabric.  The Central Park condos in downtown Tulsa are suburban in nature.  They are not part of an urban, pedestrian friendly streetscape and actually harm that from forming. 

You know that the green space in the renderings is a park, right? It's OKC's equivalent of Guthrie Green only 4x larger. The podium and tower buildings have retail/restaurant space coming up to a wide sidewalk overlooking the park. It looks like the corners have cutouts that I guess could be good places for a big outdoor dining space (Colcord hotel next to Devon Tower has a fantastic outdoor dining area like that). The artist of the renderings didn't show some of the nearby buildings, I guess to make the focus solely on the development itself.

Great new construction that doesn't consider cars/parking is rare and probably impossible in most places (especially OKC and Tulsa, the two absolute worst transit cities). The exceptions to the rule are historic preservation stories like Mayo/Philtower.

[BKDotCom]

Very nice.  Am still puzzled at how slow our downtown development is in Tulsa.

I blame I-44 being a toll road

[TheArtist]

You know that the green space in the renderings is a park, right? It's OKC's equivalent of Guthrie Green only 4x larger. The podium and tower buildings have retail/restaurant space coming up to a wide sidewalk overlooking the park. It looks like the corners have cutouts that I guess could be good places for a big outdoor dining space (Colcord hotel next to Devon Tower has a fantastic outdoor dining area like that). The artist of the renderings didn't show some of the nearby buildings, I guess to make the focus solely on the development itself.

Great new construction that doesn't consider cars/parking is rare and probably impossible in most places (especially OKC and Tulsa, the two absolute worst transit cities). The exceptions to the rule are historic preservation stories like Mayo/Philtower.

Good to know.  As I mentioned earlier the development "looked" suburban in the rendering and could not tell that it was up to the sidewalk and next to other pedestrian friendly buildings for I was not familiar with the area.  What I was replying to was a comment that seemed to suggest that it was urban simply because it was downtown, which is not always true.  Just as you can have urban development and design in a suburban context and can likewise have suburban design in a more urban context.

[swake]

You know that the green space in the renderings is a park, right? It's OKC's equivalent of Guthrie Green only 4x larger. The podium and tower buildings have retail/restaurant space coming up to a wide sidewalk overlooking the park. It looks like the corners have cutouts that I guess could be good places for a big outdoor dining space (Colcord hotel next to Devon Tower has a fantastic outdoor dining area like that). The artist of the renderings didn't show some of the nearby buildings, I guess to make the focus solely on the development itself.

Great new construction that doesn't consider cars/parking is rare and probably impossible in most places (especially OKC and Tulsa, the two absolute worst transit cities). The exceptions to the rule are historic preservation stories like Mayo/Philtower.

You understand that those are just pretty pictures from a developer that is trying make a deal, right? Theses are not based on any architectural work and if the developer builds anything you can be sure it will look very little like the current rendering.

[rdj]

Good to know.  As I mentioned earlier the development "looked" suburban in the rendering and could not tell that it was up to the sidewalk and next to other pedestrian friendly buildings for I was not familiar with the area.  What I was replying to was a comment that seemed to suggest that it was urban simply because it was downtown, which is not always true.  Just as you can have urban development and design in a suburban context and can likewise have suburban design in a more urban context.

You still haven't read the article or looked at all the images in the linked article have you?

Why pontificate for multiple paragraphs about your urban development theories and how they may or may not apply to a development you've only viewed two-three artists rendering of?

[TheArtist]

You still haven't read the article or looked at all the images in the linked article have you?

Why pontificate for multiple paragraphs about your urban development theories and how they may or may not apply to a development you've only viewed two-three artists rendering of?

I have read the article multiple times and looked at all the photos. Watched the video too.  Just read it all again and looked at all the photos again just to be sure, but I still come away with the same impression. Would like to eventually see and hear more detail.  My "multiple paragraph theories" will still hold irrespective of my current limited understanding of the development and irregardless of how this development actually turns out  .

And don't get me wrong.  One way or the other I think this is a great project for OKC, am thrilled for them, and would be excited to see a similar project in Tulsa.  Hope it's even better than it looks at first glance and hope that any changes made as things move forward will only be for the better.

[davideinstein]

Very nice.  Am still puzzled at how slow our downtown development is in Tulsa.

Inside the IDL has blown up in the past five years. I think you're talking more about the business district, but that'll come soon.

[davideinstein]

OKC's downtown development is at least a decade ahead of Tulsa.

Key point.

[sauerkraut]

High Rise housing means OKC is in with the big boys. It should be remembered though that OKC is a bit bigger than Tulsa with a metro population of about 1,300,000 in 2014  and a city population of almost 600,000. Tulsa's city population is about 390,000 and a metro population of about 900,000. OKC is bigger so I guess it gets more toys. I dunno,  OKC has  really been advancing fast this past decade. Tulsa will be stuck playing 2nd fiddle for a while it seems.

[sauerkraut]

I guess it's like that old saying people in 2nd place try harder, & work harder.

[TheArtist]

You still haven't read the article or looked at all the images in the linked article have you?

Why pontificate for multiple paragraphs about your urban development theories and how they may or may not apply to a development you've only viewed two-three artists rendering of?

One other thing.

I find it interesting that people here get ideas like "minimum parking requirements" and think of them as important "facts"  when talking about auto oriented development, but when you mention ideas like "building up to the sidewalk" as being important for pedestrian friendly development, well those things are poo poo'd as mere "theories".

I could put up two sheets of paper and on one lay out a list of zoning regulations, requirements and or design features that would help make auto centric developments work smoothly and efficiently, then on the other lay out an equal number of zoning regulations, requirements and or design features that would help make pedestrian/transit friendly developments work smoothly and efficiently....

and despite the fact that I could also lay out just as much logic, case studies, examples, etc. for each.  Somehow the first would still be seen as matter of fact don't even need to think about it, while the latter would be looked down upon as mere "theory".

Quite telling.

[SXSW]

Key point.

Exactly.  Bricktown was a thriving entertainment district when the Blue Dome was still vacant boarded up buildings.  The growth over the past 5 years in downtown Tulsa will eventually lead to developments like this. 

As an aside OKC has been busy building up their other inner city neighborhood districts that Tulsa already had in place.

[sgrizzle]

Exactly.  Bricktown was a thriving entertainment district when the Blue Dome was still vacant boarded up buildings.  The growth over the past 5 years in downtown Tulsa will eventually lead to developments like this. 

As an aside OKC has been busy building up their other inner city neighborhood districts that Tulsa already had in place.

And now bricktown is facing increasing vacancy, maintenance issues, and about 30% attendance at baseball games.

Downtown OKC is growing, but Bricktown is not the centerpiece it once was.

[modernism]

And now bricktown is facing increasing vacancy, maintenance issues, and about 30% attendance at baseball games.

Downtown OKC is growing, but Bricktown is not the centerpiece it once was.

http://newsok.com/pending-developments-could-restore-the-luster-to-bricktown/article/5353337