Tulsa's Economic "Core"

[guido911]

I am being research lazy, but I am curious. Have we discussed which part of Tulsa has the most economic impact. I know that "economic impact" can mean many things, but I guess one place to start would be sales tax revenue. Is it downtown? 71st Mingo/restaurant/Mall row? Utica Square? Where are Tulsans gathering and spending the most money?

[YoungTulsan]

My first guess would be Canton, Ohio

[dbacksfan 2.0]

My first guess would be Canton, Ohio

You'd be wrong.

[RecycleMichael]

I believe it is the council seat my wife is running for, district 7.

Her district is 41st to 101st, Memorial to Garnett. with two extra mile to Sheridan between 51st and 71st and a patch north to 31st and Mingo.

It includes Woodland Hills Mall, the 71st street corridor, almost all of the major car dealers, and hundreds of restaurants. I would love to find out sales tax collections by council district but believe this district has to be high on the list.

Economic development and redevelopment is a top priority for her. Sales tax revenue pays for city services and we can only cut so much out of a budget. Raising revenue has got to be a tool in a great city.

[guido911]

I believe it is the council seat my wife is running for, district 7.

Her district is 41st to 101st, Memorial to Garnett. with two extra mile to Sheridan between 51st and 71st and a patch north to 31st and Mingo.

It includes Woodland Hills Mall, the 71st street corridor, almost all of the major car dealers, and hundreds of restaurants. I would love to find out sales tax collections by council district but believe this district has to be high on the list.

I would tend to agree solely on personal observation. It would seem that area is what should be further developed and money invested before anywhere else. It already has a built-in business structure and clientele.

[guido911]

I believe it is the council seat my wife is running for, district 7.

If I could vote in her district, I'd support her.

[RecycleMichael]

Thank you guido.

The election is nine days away. There is a candidate forum tomorrow night at Hardesty Library.

I hope she wins on November 4th.

[TheArtist]

I would tend to agree solely on personal observation. It would seem that area is what should be further developed and money invested before anywhere else. It already has a built-in business structure and clientele.

What do you think could be done via the city to further develop the "business structure and clientele" of that area?

[guido911]

What do you think could be done via the city to further develop the "business structure and clientele" of that area?

I am sure PlaniTulsa has it covered, amirite?

[TheArtist]

I am sure PlaniTulsa has it covered, amirite?

I vaguely recall a few of the potential things they had for that area, but I also remember something rather interesting when we were doing one of the "map exercises".  There were hundreds of people in the auditorium, each sitting around a table with perhaps 10 people at each table.  Most of the people at my table were from far south Tulsa, as were a large number in the room.  But what I found surprising was how they genuinely kept looking at what could be done in areas like north Tulsa and downtown.  When I went around and looked at other peoples maps (you were to put different stickers, which meant different things, in the areas you wanted them to go to represent the different types of growth etc. ) just about every one that I can recall, they also had focused on downtown, north Tulsa and the east and west sides.  They later had many of the different groups go up in front of the audience and give a short "what we would like to see done an why" presentation for their map.  At one time early on they had people raise their hands to show what part of town they were from, looked like there were far far more people there from South Tulsa than North Tulsa but, again, much of the focus was on the areas mentioned before.  Curious don't you think? Actually, I remember two young girls who were at my table, late teens early 20s, who were from South Tulsa, typical, middle-upper middle class white girls,,, once we started negotiating on how to make our map, they kept talking about what could be done for north Tulsa and nearby downtown areas.  Was not at all what I was expecting from them early on when we were making our introductions.

However, there were presentations at that and other meetings which showed how places like those around Woodland Hills mall could "evolve" utilizing different types of planning and zoning to become more "infilled" and urban.  With the current zoning you can only do so much, but PlaniTulsa does have outlines that can be used for those areas if we want them to become "areas of change" or leave them alone as "areas of stability".   I am not sure what Small Area Plans, are in the works for what areas of South Tulsa.  I would sure like to see one for around the Promenade, I think it has a lot of potential for infill and growth.

I suppose I could look it up, but so could you, and again, I would really like to hear what some of your ideas are?  

[guido911]

Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.

That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved.  But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.

[rebound]

Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.

That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved.  But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.

Supposed to be working this morning, so I'll keep this one short (for me, anyway...)

It depends upon what level you are looking at.  I don't begrudge you (and all South Tulsans, and those from other areas) for wanting improvements in the specific areas in which you live.  And I think we all agree that there are needed improvements all over town.   But, and I may have posted similar before but can't remember, if the greater goal is to set up "Tulsa" as a vibrant destination city for better-educated, younger folk, etc, downtown and the greater city core is a higher priority than the Southern (or any direction) suburbs.

A person looking from outside looks at the "city proper" first when determining the relative attractiveness of a place.   They look at:

OKC, not Moore,
KC, not Overland Park
Memphis, not Germantown
Ft Worth, not Richland Hills
etc, etc..

Dallas is about the only place relatively close where I can think of the general metroplex area perhaps being the bigger draw than downtown, but it's impossible to compare the scale of Dallas to Tulsa.   

Now, once that initial comparison is done, then the prospect is going to possibly start looking at housing, suburbs, etc., and so we need to have some level of work going on there as well.  But if we don't have an attractive and vibrant city core, Tulsa will be at a disadvantage when compared to other surrounding cities in terms of keeping our exiting talent and will suffer in attracting new outside people and businesses.

[Conan71]

Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.

That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved.  But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.

Pure semantics but "South" Tulsa is south of Admiral.  "North" Tulsa is north of Admiral.  "East" Tulsa is east of Main.  "West" Tulsa is west of Main.  If 71st & Memorial isn't "South Tulsa" where is it?  I'm really not sure what your obsession is with districts and general terms on where something is on the city grid, but hey, it's your OCD, not mine. 

The city has just started renovation of the intersection of 71st & Memorial.  What part of all the infrastructure improvements along Memorial from 81st to 111th in the last 15 years is lost on you?  Look at all the investment along Hwy 75 from 71st to Jenks.  None of that has been neglected for the benefit of downtown development. 

If you really want to look at an area which is being neglected for the sake of other parts, how about east Tulsa?  There have been no major improvements or developments I can think of in years.  Hopefully Horizon Group will get their mall built off I-44, that would be a huge shot in the arm for East Tulsa. 

[RecycleMichael]

I think there are some area names for south Tulsa.

If I use the terms Woodland Hills people know where I mean. Same with Tulsa Hills, LaFortune, ORU, etc.

[rdj]

I could be dead wrong as I don't have numbers in front of me (and too lazy to look it up) but I would assert that from 8a-5p M-F downtown Tulsa has more employees and "economic" impact than any other square mile in the Tulsa MSA.  Without the employers downtown Woodland Hills Mall would be featured on the desolate mall blogs.  When coupled with the emerging (or if you visit downtown any given night you'd now it call it beyond that) nightlife and weekend activities there is no doubt downtown Tulsa is the largest economic driver in this region.