New 27 Story Office Tower for OKC

[modernism]

 http://newsok.com/building-momentum-oklahoma-city-keeps-growing-up/article/5375862/?page=1

[LandArchPoke]

While I am jealous of the new construction downtown OKC is getting... I can't help but be thankful that we aren't seeing what they are. They have effectively destroyed one of their most unique architectural structures in the Stage Center and now they are pretty much whipping out an entire block of historic structures to build a bland mid-rise they could have been better integrated with the structures already on the site. The fact that Devon is involved with this project baffles me as to why they haven't been slightly more civically minded in doing a better job with encouraging better design.

They will have SEVEN large parking garages in this small area of downtown with the Devon garage, Arts District garage, another city garage (I think they own it), this development will have 2 parking garages and so will the Clayco site. The proposed route for the streetcar goes through this area too... seems like the opposite of what you are trying to encourage by building a streetcar.

While it's great for growth's sake... OKC really seems to be sacrificing a lot of density and historic structures for some rather bland and uninspiring development.

Here is a perfect example of a building in Vancouver who integrated existing structures into a new office building:






http://www.theexchangebuilding.ca

[TheArtist]

So they are getting two new 25 story towers, two new 26 story towers, and a 27 story tower.  All of that will make a sizable difference to their skyline.  But hey, we may be getting not one, but two new suburban outlet malls.

[ZYX]

So they are getting two new 25 story towers, two new 26 story towers, and a 27 story tower.  All of that will make a sizable difference to their skyline.  But hey, we may be getting not one, but two new suburban outlet malls.

We aren't getting as much development, but why should we care? Tulsa is still moving forward, and seemingly gaining momentum. We also seem to be keeping the character of our downtown so far, not tearing down a block of unique buildings and good urban fabric to replace it with a somewhat bland office building and two parking garages. In fact, OKC is doing exactly what you often speak against; building a faux urban environment that is, in reality, not much different than a suburb.

OKC has many other things going for them that I would like to see done similarly here. This development....I'm not jealous.

[LandArchPoke]

building a faux urban environment

That hits the nail on the head. The fact that there is even going to be an elevated walkway between the projects will kill any chance of pedestrian activity increasing in the area.

They are demoing buildings that currently engage the sidewalk, for more of the street-level style retail space that is in the current Devon garage that has had ZERO interest from retailers.

What's proposed: Not exactly an inspiring design for street retail. It a homogenous blank wall essentially for a few cuts of storefronts.




What's being demolished:




Already failed street retail under the Devon garage... so why not repeat it?

[LandArchPoke]

So they are getting two new 25 story towers, two new 26 story towers, and a 27 story tower.  All of that will make a sizable difference to their skyline.  But hey, we may be getting not one, but two new suburban outlet malls.

Don't be surprised if there aren't a few new office towers that pop up in Downtown Tulsa in the next two years. There's at least 4 developers looking at sites downtown. Granted if oil prices stay the way they are it might scare the out of state one's away.

[ZYX]

Don't be surprised if there aren't a few new office towers that pop up in Downtown Tulsa in the next two years. There's at least 4 developers looking at sites downtown. Granted if oil prices stay the way they are it might scare the out of state one's away.

That's interesting. I don't think oil prices will stay this low for long, but who knows.

Do you know (or are you able to disclose) which companies are looking at building offices? Or would it be spec?

[LandArchPoke]

That's interesting. I don't think oil prices will stay this low for long, but who knows.

Do you know (or are you able to disclose) which companies are looking at building offices? Or would it be spec?

They are looking at spec. Around 150,000 - 200,000 square feet. So nothing huge, but depending on the footprint of the building it'd still be a nice addition. Tulsa at the moment could honestly support several developments like this, especially downtown. The key is the size of the floor plate. If a development comes in and builds something with the floor plate size of One Technology Center they will destroy the market. We need new buildings with about 10,000 - 12,000 sq ft floor plates. As most tenants are around 4,000 - 6,000 sq ft it would be easy to break the floors for multi-tenants. If you build giant floor plates they won't lease in Tulsa.

[TheArtist]

We aren't getting as much development, but why should we care? Tulsa is still moving forward, and seemingly gaining momentum. We also seem to be keeping the character of our downtown so far, not tearing down a block of unique buildings and good urban fabric to replace it with a somewhat bland office building and two parking garages. In fact, OKC is doing exactly what you often speak against; building a faux urban environment that is, in reality, not much different than a suburb.

OKC has many other things going for them that I would like to see done similarly here. This development....I'm not jealous.

I haven't looked at these newest plans that closely but at first glance it does not look promising for building a pleasing, lively, street environment.  And so far we have been quite lucky with what we have been getting development wise downtown (other than the exception of the Cimarex Tower).

I am once again puzzled by the lack of awnings on many developments, both in OKC and in our downtown.  If you want pedestrian activity, you have to have that here and there.  Drove around the new Bill White Chevrolet development the other day and didn't see one awning or space for protection from the rain on 3 full sides of the development and the other north facing side had some but they were what remained from the original buildings.  Went to Utica Square last evening when it was raining, still lots of people out there shopping, including me lol, and it was no problem being in an outdoor environment like that because of the plentiful awnings/porticos that wrap around many of the older buildings. Those little "details" matter, especially in retail or for creating a lively street environment.

As an example, Christmas Holiday season, as much as half of your yearly sales can happen during that time.  This month we have 3 weekends (most of our sales are on the weekend) say it rains one weekend and your in an area where there are no awnings and your competitor is in an area with.  Your sales chunk down by quite a bit, theirs remains more steady. 

Another thought, you spend money and time on advertising, doing special events, etc. hoping to see this or that percentage increase in sales over the similar time last year.  Then I will look around some of these places downtown and see them doing well when it's nice outside, but then turn into ghost towns say in the spring when it's raining.  Seen it be busy during the first part of the day in say the Blue Dome or Brady Arts on a Friday and then you think "Oh, well it should be really good for them in the evening."  Then it starts raining and you go into the restaurants and such and your one of the few people there and nobody is out on the street.  Contrast that to some places I have gone to with ample awnings, portico's, connections inside buildings, etc. and they are just as busy as ever (similar thing works in Oklahoma pertaining to those days when it's really hot and you really want to have some shade here and there).  You work so hard to bump up your business and make each weekend/day count to continue to grow your bottom line... but we seem to have forgotten some really basic basics pertaining to downtown/pedestrian friendly environments during our little cultural foray into suburbia lol

People are fickle. And if you want to have retail in a pedestrian friendly urban environment, you would be wise to pay attention to what has worked for thousands of years all over the world, and not completely ignore it.

[sgrizzle]

Here is a perfect example of a building in Vancouver who integrated existing structures into a new office building:






http://www.theexchangebuilding.ca

A+ for effort on saving a building, but personal feelings on the end design are F-.

[ZYX]

I haven't looked at these newest plans that closely but at first glance it does not look promising for building a pleasing, lively, street environment.  And so far we have been quite lucky with what we have been getting development wise downtown (other than the exception of the Cimarex Tower).

I am once again puzzled by the lack of awnings on many developments, both in OKC and in our downtown.  If you want pedestrian activity, you have to have that here and there.  Drove around the new Bill White Chevrolet development the other day and didn't see one awning or space for protection from the rain on 3 full sides of the development and the other north facing side had some but they were what remained from the original buildings.  Went to Utica Square last evening when it was raining, still lots of people out there shopping, including me lol, and it was no problem being in an outdoor environment like that because of the plentiful awnings/porticos that wrap around many of the older buildings. Those little "details" matter, especially in retail or for creating a lively street environment.

As an example, Christmas Holiday season, as much as half of your yearly sales can happen during that time.  This month we have 3 weekends (most of our sales are on the weekend) say it rains one weekend and your in an area where there are no awnings and your competitor is in an area with.  Your sales chunk down by quite a bit, theirs remains more steady. 

Another thought, you spend money and time on advertising, doing special events, etc. hoping to see this or that percentage increase in sales over the similar time last year.  Then I will look around some of these places downtown and see them doing well when it's nice outside, but then turn into ghost towns say in the spring when it's raining.  Seen it be busy during the first part of the day in say the Blue Dome or Brady Arts on a Friday and then you think "Oh, well it should be really good for them in the evening."  Then it starts raining and you go into the restaurants and such and your one of the few people there and nobody is out on the street.  Contrast that to some places I have gone to with ample awnings, portico's, connections inside buildings, etc. and they are just as busy as ever (similar thing works in Oklahoma pertaining to those days when it's really hot and you really want to have some shade here and there).  You work so hard to bump up your business and make each weekend/day count to continue to grow your bottom line... but we seem to have forgotten some really basic basics pertaining to downtown/pedestrian friendly environments during our little cultural foray into suburbia lol

People are fickle. And if you want to have retail in a pedestrian friendly urban environment, you would be wise to pay attention to what has worked for thousands of years all over the world, and not completely ignore it.

Totally agree about the awnings/otherwise covered areas. We need them at least in places where we want retail. Who cares if it's raining if you're covered the whole time? And in the summer they'd provide shade and a slightly lower temperature, things that would make walking much more enjoyable when the weather isn't perfect.

Many of the buildings had them many years ago, didn't they?

[TheArtist]

Yes, most buildings downtown had them and many still either have them or you can see where they once were.  Next time you look at the Philcade look up over the ground floor windows and you will notice slots in the wall and see just the tip of the fabric and mechanisms for the awnings that are inside those slots.  Kinda neat.  

A lot of the older, smaller buildings that remain and have been refurbished around downtown, you can look at them and see a "diamond shape" here and there, or other fixture up high that used to be part of what the awnings would have attached to.  

Many people think, well we have window glazing and new energy efficient glass etc. and even modern air conditioning so we don't need awnings.  Sure awnings were partly used to shade the windows and such back in the day, but very importantly at ground level they would still serve very important functions for pedestrians.

When I got to do that project in London last year I had a neat little experience.  One day while at a cafe for lunch I was sitting inside looking out along a bustling high street and enjoying watching all the people and activity.  Suddenly it started to rain, and like magic, aaall up and down the street, the workers popped out an array of colorful awnings, over the people sitting outside at the cafe's, over the flower stalls, fruit stands, sidewalk antique stalls and clothing displays, etc.  Then a few minutes later the shower had passed, the sun popped out, and the awnings were put back.  The whole thing happened like "no big deal", nobody missed a stride, conversations and laughter continued right on,  but I was entranced by the whole affair.  I had never seen anything like it, and realized that was kind of sad in a way for surely such scenes had been happening in cities all over the world for thousands of years as "normal, obvious, affairs".... but I had never seen anything like it, in Tulsa.

[LandArchPoke]

Yes, most buildings downtown had them and many still either have them or you can see where they once were.  Next time you look at the Philcade look up over the ground floor windows and you will notice slots in the wall and see just the tip of the fabric and mechanisms for the awnings that are inside those slots.  Kinda neat.  

A lot of the older, smaller buildings that remain and have been refurbished around downtown, you can look at them and see a "diamond shape" here and there, or other fixture up high that used to be part of what the awnings would have attached to.  

Many people think, well we have window glazing and new energy efficient glass etc. and even modern air conditioning so we don't need awnings.  Sure awnings were partly used to shade the windows and such back in the day, but very importantly at ground level they would still serve very important functions for pedestrians.

When I got to do that project in London last year I had a neat little experience.  One day while at a cafe for lunch I was sitting inside looking out along a bustling high street and enjoying watching all the people and activity.  Suddenly it started to rain, and like magic, aaall up and down the street, the workers popped out an array of colorful awnings, over the people sitting outside at the cafe's, over the flower stalls, fruit stands, sidewalk antique stalls and clothing displays, etc.  Then a few minutes later the shower had passed, the sun popped out, and the awnings were put back.  The whole thing happened like "no big deal", nobody missed a stride, conversations and laughter continued right on,  but I was entranced by the whole affair.  I had never seen anything like it, and realized that was kind of sad in a way for surely such scenes had been happening in cities all over the world for thousands of years as "normal, obvious, affairs".... but I had never seen anything like it, in Tulsa.

It really is amazing how such small details are so essential to making quality public spaces that in turn drive commerce.

One of the big problems here too is the sizes of our sidewalks. We need a serious road diet and sidewalk expansion. I think if we had more outdoor dining downtown you'd see more awnings and coverings as that is probably the main driver and not necessarily keeping people walking from one building to another dry or in the shade. As a restaurant, especially in an urban setting those sidewalk seats are VERY valuable, and doing whatever is necessary to keep those seats open year round no matter the weather becomes very important. This in turn drives the desirability of the street for other retail and pedestrians.

[SXSW]

I hope that when Tulsa does see new towers downtown that it doesn't come at the expense of the existing fabric as has happened in OKC.  As ugly as Cimarex is at least it filled in an uglier parking lot, though I think if Towerview was still around today it would be redeveloped.

[Conan71]

I hope that when Tulsa does see new towers downtown that it doesn't come at the expense of the existing fabric as has happened in OKC.  As ugly as Cimarex is at least it filled in an uglier parking lot, though I think if Towerview was still around today it would be redeveloped.

Hey, with Tulsa's cycle of tear down for something new, the Williams Tower (or whatever the early 1970's BOK/Williams high rise is now called) should be ripe for demo in the next 10-20 years.