REI

[DTowner]

According to the Tulsa Whirled, the question of the property having been properly surplused was the reason for the two dissenting votes of board members.  And it would be nice too, if the media could get its story straight (i.e. 99 year lease vs. purchase) prior to blabbing that out.

The contract is plainly a "Purchase and Sale Contract" not a lease.  Perhaps the confusion is that sale is contingent upon the developer leasing part of the property to REI?

[Conan71]

The contract is plainly a "Purchase and Sale Contract" not a lease.  Perhaps the confusion is that sale is contingent upon the developer leasing part of the property to REI?

No, the confusion was a bubble-headed bleach blonde saying it was a 99 year ground lease.

[PonderInc]

In fairness to the reporter, the TPFA didn't exactly follow Roberts Rules of Order.  (You could tell they weren't used to public attention.) They did not clearly state a motion.  The developer presented some hooey, they took public comment, the authority members discussed questions/concerns, then the mayor rambled about something and it was seconded and everyone voted.

In fairness to journalism, there was a printed agenda that clearly stated what was being considered. (A purchase and sale contract.)

[PonderInc]

Part of the mayor's rambling motion was that the proceeds from the sale should benefit the property.  (Presumably, the remaining park land, but, again, he wasn't very cogent.)  It will be interesting to see what the motion actually said when the minutes are approved. 

Does that mean that all $1,465,000 will go to improving what remains of the public park land south of this development?  If so, wow!  Those are going to be some fancy sand volleyball courts!  (Update: they mentioned the plan is to move the sand volleyball courts south, instead of moving them to Johnson Park.)

[swake]

Part of the mayor's rambling motion was that the proceeds from the sale should benefit the property.  (Presumably, the remaining park land, but, again, he wasn't very cogent.)  It will be interesting to see what the motion actually said when the minutes are approved.  

Does that mean that all $1,465,000 will go to improving what remains of the public park land south of this development?  If so, wow!  Those are going to be some fancy sand volleyball courts!  (Update: they mentioned the plan is to move the sand volleyball courts south, instead of moving them to Johnson Park.)

Johnson Park is a terrible idea, improving the park south of the REI site could have potential.

[TheArtist]

Johnson Park is a terrible idea, improving the park south of the REI site could have potential.

I agree.  I liked the "feel" of the space at the old volleyball courts.  I played volleyball there for many years and even started several volleyball teams for a few seasons back in the day.  Volleyball is a natural by the river (or a beach).  Though, being barefooted, one would discover when the ball went out of bounds, that there were some horrid sticker bushes towards the river side lol  Ouch ouch! 

Perhaps, once its open, we can start playing volleyball by the river at the new Gathering Place and perhaps they will get the hint and make some permanent courts there.

[cannon_fodder]

Why is our leadership seem like requiring a better site plan is simply something they cant do?

If I was selling a track of land next to my house I could set build requirements, setbacks, whatever I wanted in the sale agreement. I have helped friends in the country sell a track of land and put covenants in the sale agreement that the purchaser would not build or allow to be built any homes within 100 yards of the property line (seller was afraid buyer was a shell company for a subdivision developer and didnt want to sell the land if it meant neighbors) for a period of 10 years.

In this instance, we are selling park land for a bargain, at a key intersection, right next to a river that the City is trying to convince people needs water for development. You'd think we would want to make sure this is done right. WE own the land. WE can mandate how it is used or refuse the sale.

There was much discussion on the tiny tracked of land Tally's sits on being sold, I think i saw on this forum that it was for a similar amount of money as a 12 acre tracked at 71st and Riverside. WHAT THE HELL? One would think the 12 acres at a prime location could demand a premium.

[swake]

Why is our leadership seem like requiring a better site plan is simply something they cant do?

If I was selling a track of land next to my house I could set build requirements, setbacks, whatever I wanted in the sale agreement. I have helped friends in the country sell a track of land and put covenants in the sale agreement that the purchaser would not build or allow to be built any homes within 100 yards of the property line (seller was afraid buyer was a shell company for a subdivision developer and didnt want to sell the land if it meant neighbors) for a period of 10 years.

In this instance, we are selling park land for a bargain, at a key intersection, right next to a river that the City is trying to convince people needs water for development. You'd think we would want to make sure this is done right. WE own the land. WE can mandate how it is used or refuse the sale.

There was much discussion on the tiny tracked of land Tally's sits on being sold, I think i saw on this forum that it was for a similar amount of money as a 12 acre tracked at 71st and Riverside. WHAT THE HELL? One would think the 12 acres at a prime location could demand a premium.

Because Dewey

[PonderInc]

Two problems:
1. As a city, Tulsa is too insecure to demand value and high quality development. Over and over again, we get raped, and thank the rapists for their interest. (Other cities insist that developers meet their standards, and the developers do it.)  Unsurprisingly, demanding value creates better places, which are--shocking!--in greater demand and more valuable than mediocre places!

2. Too many of our leaders and power brokers are apparently so dense that they can't see or understand the difference between quality development and a bunch of junk.  Maybe they are wowed by the fictional tales the developers tell about all the economic growth that will occur (if those stories were true, Tulsa would be flooded with excess revenues!).  Maybe they lack the perception and imagination to envision something better.  Maybe their travel experience is limited to interstate corridors, where the lowest common denominator surrounds them everywhere they go.  Maybe they can't tell the difference between Maple Ridge and Woodland Hills Mall.  I have no idea.

But I am getting so tired of it. 

[rdj]

It's because Tulsa has the most arrogant inferiority complex you'll ever see.  We love to look down at our noses and at everyone else, namely OKC, while begging whatever and whomever to please come to our city no matter the cost.

[DTowner]

Two problems:
1. As a city, Tulsa is too insecure to demand value and high quality development. Over and over again, we get raped, and thank the rapists for their interest. (Other cities insist that developers meet their standards, and the developers do it.)  Unsurprisingly, demanding value creates better places, which are--shocking!--in greater demand and more valuable than mediocre places!

2. Too many of our leaders and power brokers are apparently so dense that they can't see or understand the difference between quality development and a bunch of junk.  Maybe they are wowed by the fictional tales the developers tell about all the economic growth that will occur (if those stories were true, Tulsa would be flooded with excess revenues!).  Maybe they lack the perception and imagination to envision something better.  Maybe their travel experience is limited to interstate corridors, where the lowest common denominator surrounds them everywhere they go.  Maybe they can't tell the difference between Maple Ridge and Woodland Hills Mall.  I have no idea.

But I am getting so tired of it. 

I agree this is a much better description of the problem than blaming whoever happens to be mayor.  We are so desperate to have the stores all the cool cities have that we don't want to put any conditions on them for fear they will turn us down.  The irony is, by the times those stores get around to opening in Tulsa, their coolness is ebbing to the point they probably need us more than we need them. 

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I agree this is a much better description of the problem than blaming whoever happens to be mayor.  We are so desperate to have the stores all the cool cities have that we don't want to put any conditions on them for fear they will turn us down.  The irony is, by the times those stores get around to opening in Tulsa, their coolness is ebbing to the point they probably need us more than we need them. 

This and rdj's comment have been true about Tulsa since I can remember back in the early 70's when OKC had Montgomery Ward Stores, and all Tulsa had was a catalog counter.

Also, I think REI will survive without any issue if they did not open a location in Tulsa.

[heironymouspasparagus]

This and rdj's comment have been true about Tulsa since I can remember back in the early 70's when OKC had Montgomery Ward Stores, and all Tulsa had was a catalog counter.

Also, I think REI will survive without any issue if they did not open a location in Tulsa.

Bah....we didn't need no stinkin' Monkey Wards...we had Sears and Otasco!!

[Stanley1]

This and rdj's comment have been true about Tulsa since I can remember back in the early 70's when OKC had Montgomery Ward Stores, and all Tulsa had was a catalog counter.

Also, I think REI will survive without any issue if they did not open a location in Tulsa.

Odd comparison now that Tulsa generally gets the "new stuff" before OKC.  Not always, but more often then not.

[DTowner]

This and rdj's comment have been true about Tulsa since I can remember back in the early 70's when OKC had Montgomery Ward Stores, and all Tulsa had was a catalog counter.

Also, I think REI will survive without any issue if they did not open a location in Tulsa.

There was a  time when Mongtomery Ward's was cool?