REI

[Townsend]

The developer out of Dallas is doing some PR work trying to look reasonable:

http://www.newson6.com/story/31787900/texas-based-developer-talks-vision-for-helmerich-park

He pointed out numerous tweaks to the design since the process started - increased landscaping and outdoor seating, bike racks, an expanded open-air plaza and internal pathways.

Is he calling parking lots "open-air plazas"?

[Conan71]

If he wants to sound reasonable, he needs to pony up the $600K/acre everyone else is paying in the area first and come up with a much better development plan.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

If he wants to sound reasonable, he needs to pony up the $600K/acre everyone else is paying in the area first and come up with a much better development plan.

Agreed! Of course he is going to be all for this and talk as if it will be some destination with no downside. How about the cash-strained City of Tulsa giving away high-value property!?

[cannon_fodder]

Wait... he said it is going to be just like the Katy Trail Ice House in Dallas?  Ok, lets talk...







v.

[swake]

And once the city pays to rebuild the volleyball court will the city actually even clear any money at all?

[Townsend]

And once the city pays to rebuild the volleyball court will the city actually even clear any money at all?

I'm too lazy to find it but someone posted the maths showing the city of Tulsa taking a loss on this one.

[swake]

I'm too lazy to find it but someone posted the maths showing the city of Tulsa taking a loss on this one.

Insane. Dewey is a disaster.

The store *could* be situated in the park in a good way with a restaurant or two with the courts next door, but this development still sucks as proposed.

Or REI could go into a hundred other locations in the city.

[Conan71]

And once the city pays to rebuild the volleyball court will the city actually even clear any money at all?

Aside from this, would you (or myself) drive 100 miles from OKC to feel "REI legit"?  I sure wouldn't.  If there is something I need that bad from REI can I not order it on-line and pay the use tax? I honestly don't have a clue what that item would be I could not find in another shop which is already here, particularly at a place like Backwoods in The Farm.  

The last thing I recall buying from REI was about 20 years ago in Denver and I just remember it was something I needed for myself to take some clients skiing the next day so I wouldn't freeze my arse off and that store was convenient to my hotel.

My wife and I were touring course marshals for the USA Pro Challenge in Colorado last summer.  We are what I would call very active outdoors enthusiasts.Our final deployment for the week was near the Denver store downtown and we could have gone there later that day or the following day prior to leaving Denver.  We didn't.  We drove past the Fort Collins REI store a few times, we didn't stop there then either.  

In the last two years between multiple trips to New Mexico or Colorado, we stopped in independent outfitter stores we usually deal with in Leadville, Pagosa Springs, Durango, Salida, Breckenridge, Steamboat, Dillon, Albuquerque, Taos, Angel Fire, etc. just to browse or if we did need something, we never sought out an REI just because Tulsa didn't have one, it never dawned on us to venture into the expanse of an REI.

I don't think REI is that much of a draw for Tulsa.  What is so compelling about REI that you cannot satisfy with local retailers or other national retailers who have been here for some time in the first place?

I've always thought of myself as the "average consumer".  I support local, eschew national as much as is possible in this day and age, and tourism for the sake of shopping simply is not my bag.  Does that make me an anomaly I'm simply not aware of?

I really don't get the cachet of having an REI in Tulsa when it's on a total give away deal for the land.  Why would someone from Denver, Dallas, or Houston here on energy business go shop at Tulsa's REI when they can do that in their own home town?  What does REI sell that would make someone get in their car and drive from Owasso, Muskogee, or Bartlesville to purchase in sufficient quantities to support this total give-away?

To my knowledge, REI doesn't do anything different than any other sporting goods retailer to woo high school sports business that Academy, Dick's, et al doesn't do.  So where is the sales tax lift from this project???  How much sales tax does a remote bank branch (which has been a part of this project from the beginning) generate?...Oh...wait...none!  

Just for fun, do this:  Enter a major city name then "REI" and chances are, they have a store there.  So anyone here on business with an REI in their hometown isn't likely to have an impulse to shop at ours if they come from an MSA equal to or larger than our own. It's like Bass Pro in terms of over-hyped and over-exploited retail.  Bass Pro was another cool concept prior to the internet too and when there were just a few terrestrial locations.

Why has the self-esteem of our city sunk so low that we will go to incredibly stupid means to recruit ubiquitous development with less than 10% sales and/or property tax lift?  I really do not get it.  REI is as compelling as Academy, Sports Authority, or Dick's and I don't recall any of those national chains being paid any greenmail to move here.  There is something really corrupt or really stupid about this development that defies any logic.

If there was no other valid example to get rid of the current regime at City Hall, this should be it.

[TheArtist]

I had never even heard of REI till this issue came up so could care less "who they supposedly are".  This development is crappy.

[LandArchPoke]

Insane. Dewey is a disaster.

The store *could* be situated in the park in a good way with a restaurant or two with the courts next door, but this development still sucks as proposed.

Or REI could go into a hundred other locations in the city.

I looked up the costs of building sand volleyball courts, seems from what I can find quickly it will cost us about $15,000 - 25,000 per court to replace, so let's say $20,000 per court. There's 10 courts there so it will cost in the neighborhood of $200,000 to replace them. Frankly, this is probably on the cheap side. With the money the city is proposing to give back to the developer in "infrastructure costs" the $ the city would net - replacing these courts will probably be zero. Again, aren't we supposed to be a business minded city under Dewey? How is giving away a piece of land off 71st right on the River close to Tulsa Hills and high incomes in South Tulsa for $0 a good business decision?

I will ask - are people really against developing this land, as in we  need to preserve park land or is it that people just want to see a smarter development (mixed-use non big box strip center style)? From what I see of the people who filed the lawsuit is that they don't want parkland developed period. To me, I don't mind if we develop parkland in strategic places like this (vast amount of this park is under utilized), but it needs to be high quality development - not like what is proposed.

[davideinstein]

I had never even heard of REI till this issue came up so could care less "who they supposedly are".  This development is crappy.

They are just another suburban box store regardless of the perception they try to give.

[DowntownDan]

Katy Trail Ice House is awesome.  It's one of my favorite places.  This development ain't no Katy Trail Ice House.  The closest we have is Elwoods, which is terribly underutilized in my opinion as a food/drink/music venue.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Katy Trail Ice House is awesome.  It's one of my favorite places.  This development ain't no Katy Trail Ice House.  The closest we have is Elwoods, which is terribly underutilized in my opinion as a food/drink/music venue.

I agree about Elwoods, but I wish they had better food and drink options. It would be neat if they could make it a bit more of a beer-garden. They have to some extent added on to make it more of an outdoor patio area with permanent stage and roped off area.

Parking probably hurts them too, especially being next to the Blue Rose Cafe. Tulsans don't want to park a block away and walk. Plus there's no convenient spot to walk over Riverside with a cross walk. Maybe they should consider adding a pedestrian stoplight and crosswalk there at W 19th St.

[Conan71]

Katy Trail Ice House is awesome.  It's one of my favorite places.  This development ain't no Katy Trail Ice House.  The closest we have is Elwoods, which is terribly underutilized in my opinion as a food/drink/music venue.

No food at Elwood's anymore.  At least they wouldn't serve us any yesterday afternoon.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Aside from this, would you (or myself) drive 100 miles from OKC to feel "REI legit"?  I sure wouldn't.  If there is something I need that bad from REI can I not order it on-line and pay the use tax? I honestly don't have a clue what that item would be I could not find in another shop which is already here, particularly at a place like Backwoods in The Farm.  

The last thing I recall buying from REI was about 20 years ago in Denver and I just remember it was something I needed for myself to take some clients skiing the next day so I wouldn't freeze my arse off and that store was convenient to my hotel.

My wife and I were touring course marshals for the USA Pro Challenge in Colorado last summer.  We are what I would call very active outdoors enthusiasts.Our final deployment for the week was near the Denver store downtown and we could have gone there later that day or the following day prior to leaving Denver.  We didn't.  We drove past the Fort Collins REI store a few times, we didn't stop there then either.  


Why has the self-esteem of our city sunk so low that we will go to incredibly stupid means to recruit ubiquitous development with less than 10% sales and/or property tax lift?  I really do not get it.  REI is as compelling as Academy, Sports Authority, or Dick's and I don't recall any of those national chains being paid any greenmail to move here.  There is something really corrupt or really stupid about this development that defies any logic.

If there was no other valid example to get rid of the current regime at City Hall, this should be it.

I agree. I went to REI once because others talked about how cool it is. Mostly really expensive items only hardcore camping/outdoor enthusiasts would need (Many specialized lightweight items for long hiking trips). It doesn't even make sense to have one in Oklahoma. We don't have huge mountains or coastal trails here. It would be like having a professional chef store with $1000 knives in Tulsa when 98% of people could find what they needed at a standard retail store or online.