REI

[shavethewhales]

Yeah, there are plenty of imaginary scenarios where they could improve upon what there, but the discussion really is about the lowest common denominator development that Tulsans will trade park land for.

As has been said before, if the developer was going out of his way to make a space that really improved the area we wouldn't be having this discussion. A few people would gripe about selling park land, but ultimately the vast majority would be excited for it. Instead, the developer and mayor is arguing that a strip mall with blank walls facing the river is good enough, especially since we're getting some all-important niche brand-name store to go with it.

In the end, they'll ram this through based on the argument that more people will use the strip mall than the park, and in five years we'll have another faded strip mall with nail salons and cell phone stores, and probably without the REI since that will probably struggle after the new smell wears off (hence why they won't commit to a good design). Will people learn? Probably not. They'll probably already be working on expanding it into the land next to it. 

Good development is for those other cities. We're not special enough.

[AquaMan]

I wonder if the unintended consequence is going to be that donors will be quite skeptical about donating land for particular purposes. I certainly would be hesitant to donate land for parks after seeing how easily it was turned to commercial purposes. If the city needs the money they simply take it and claim its for the public good.

[Conan71]

Yeah, there are plenty of imaginary scenarios where they could improve upon what there, but the discussion really is about the lowest common denominator development that Tulsans will trade park land for.

As has been said before, if the developer was going out of his way to make a space that really improved the area we wouldn't be having this discussion. A few people would gripe about selling park land, but ultimately the vast majority would be excited for it. Instead, the developer and mayor is arguing that a strip mall with blank walls facing the river is good enough, especially since we're getting some all-important niche brand-name store to go with it.

In the end, they'll ram this through based on the argument that more people will use the strip mall than the park, and in five years we'll have another faded strip mall with nail salons and cell phone stores, and probably without the REI since that will probably struggle after the new smell wears off (hence why they won't commit to a good design). Will people learn? Probably not. They'll probably already be working on expanding it into the land next to it.  

Good development is for those other cities. We're not special enough.

Well now, it won't be completely blank walls.  I'm sure they will plant some crepe myrtles for "screening".

Tulsa's issue is our current leadership has ZERO self-esteem when it comes to demanding quality development.  I guess it is part of our cheap cost of living culture.  

We also have an economic development director who is either unwilling or does not know how to court great employers to Tulsa with great paying jobs rather than going for the low hanging fruit of retail development which adds minimal benefit to the revenue base.  He has completely scoffed at the idea that amenities like parks and green space are what other cities use to attract 25-34 YP's and what other cities have to lure their young back after college.

[TheArtist]

Well now, it won't be completely blank walls.  I'm sure they will plant some crepe myrtles for "screening".

Tulsa's issue is our current leadership has ZERO self-esteem when it comes to demanding quality development.  I guess it is part of our cheap cost of living culture. 

We also don't have an economic development director who is either unwilling or does not know how to court great employers to Tulsa with great paying jobs rather than going for the low hanging fruit of retail development which adds minimal benefit to the revenue base.  He has completely scoffed at the idea that amenities like parks and green space are what other cities use to attract 25-34 YP's and what other cities have to lure their young back after college.

Other tricky thing, per our leadership, is that in situations like this you get scads of wealthy, successful, businessmen and developers pushing their agenda of "We don't want you to tell us (successful) people what to do, we know business and what works, who are you to doubt us? lay off or you will hurt the business climate," etc. etc.

[PonderInc]

Maybe they'll hire The Artist to paint a trompe l'oeil painting on the blank wall. It could look like a high quality riverfront development or the beautiful park land that could have been 

[LandArchPoke]

It would be far easier to get something towards that direction if this property remains a park than it will ever have the chance once some strip mall type thing goes on it, imho.

I'm definitely not saying that we should do the strip center and hope to retro fit it at some point. I don't think the proposed design should be allowed, period. I do think, proper higher density and walkable development that integrates and interacts with the trails and the river should be allowed. I don't see much point in preserving grass for the sake of it. If we can leverage some of the land to benefit the park, create a TIF & BID that pays for park improvements - I see that as a win win. Typical suburban box development is not a win.

[patric]

There is nothing special about nearly all the REI stores because there is nothing special about REI.  Is there a single product they sell that you cannot get somewhere that is already in Tulsa (other than the REI brand of the same merchandise)?  If they were building at one of the strip centers at Riverside & Delaware or scattered throughout Tulsa, I wouldn't care about their attitude or lack of imagination. 

Sports Authority will close all of its 450-plus stores across the United States after the bankrupt company wasn't able to secure a buyer, according to a new court filing.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-sport-authority-closings-20160519-story.html

Like other big-box retailers, Sports Authority struggled in recent years with new competitors online and in the brick-and-mortar sphere.

[Conan71]

Sports Authority will close all of its 450-plus stores across the United States after the bankrupt company wasn't able to secure a buyer, according to a new court filing.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-sport-authority-closings-20160519-story.html

Like other big-box retailers, Sports Authority struggled in recent years with new competitors online and in the brick-and-mortar sphere.

Sports Authority sells ubiquitous off-shore made crap.  No real loss to the sporting goods industry.

[patric]

Drove by the park and saw a lot of trees tied with orange construction tape.

Does that mean they are being removed, or being saved?

[Townsend]

Drove by the park and saw a lot of trees tied with orange construction tape.

Does that mean they are being removed, or being saved?

Orange tape can be used for surveying but considering the recent history...I'm going to guess someone plans to remove them.

[patric]

Orange tape can be used for surveying but considering the recent history...I'm going to guess someone plans to remove them.

They arent junk trees or brush.  They look like Riverparks-maintained landscape.  Who would be moving forward on park demolition at this point?

[Townsend]

They arent junk trees or brush.  They look like Riverparks-maintained landscape.  Who would be moving forward on park demolition at this point?

I'm hoping nobody but I have no faith in anyone with the power to call out the wrecking crews.

Anyone have real information about the orange tape around the trees?

[PonderInc]

Here's the so-called Tree Preservation Plan from the detailed site plan that was submitted to the TMAPC last year.  You have to zoom in quite a bit to read the details, but there are several healthy, mature trees that are standing in the way of the anticipated driveways and...uh... well, 589 parking spaces.  Or is it 580 now?  I forget.

[Bamboo World]

August 1, 2016 Tulsa World update

A majority of the City Council is against vacating Helmerich Park property to allow the REI development.

[Conan71]

And basically TPFA, the Mayor and his minions screwed this up from the "git-go" and the city might be sued as a result.

How bucking stupid is that?  Agree to sell land worth $600k/acre (or more since this would be very coveted being right on the river) for $100K, then end up being possibly sued by a developer for not following through on your stupid idea in the first place.

This development as well as the now scuttled Simon development on Turkey Mountain were complete busts to the taxpayer.  I sincerely hope Mayor-elect Bynum has someone with much more economic sophistication in mind than Clay Bird.