REI

[DowntownDan]

Wouldn't any contract for the sale of public land have a requirement that the deal be approved by the relevant authority and ultimately city council?  How does anyone have the authority to approve a land sale that requires city council approval to the extent that the city can be sued if the city council disapproves?  Doesn't that kind of take city council out of the picture?

[Conan71]

Wouldn't any contract for the sale of public land have a requirement that the deal be approved by the relevant authority and ultimately city council?  How does anyone have the authority to approve a land sale that requires city council approval to the extent that the city can be sued if the city council disapproves?  Doesn't that kind of take city council out of the picture?

I do believe this is the issue TPFA overlooked.  In order for them to sell the property, the Council would first have to vacate the land as city park land, which the Council had not done and apparently is now unwilling to do.

I'm not sure what was going on at the site last Tuesday night if that is a regular volleyball game night or a special tournament, but there had to have been at least 100 or more cars parked at the site.

[PonderInc]

That's the tricky thing, since apparently TPFA owns the land, not the COT... even though the City of Tulsa has been operating and maintaining it all this time.  And COT lawyers will will be defending the TPFA in the lawsuit.  So, whose baby is it? Does it require City Council approval to vacate/declare surplus?  For all intents and purposes, it functions as COT property.  I'm not sure if there's a legal term for "if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck..." but it sure seems like it's COT property to me.  (Maybe it's like if your the biological father, but you haven't been participating or paying child support for decades...you sort of waive your right to claim them as your kids...)

[Townsend]

Hearing pushed back 60 days per TW.

[PonderInc]

Which gets us to October.  When does GT take office?  December?

[Conan71]

Which gets us to October.  When does GT take office?  December?

Yep.

I predict another punt in October.

[davideinstein]

It's going to be built.

[Conan71]

It's going to be built.

Not a chance on that site. 

They might want to start talking to Utica Square.  Interesting part is the Helmerichs own Utica Square. 

[cannon_fodder]

It's going to be built.

Other than public outrage. The City Council and new mayor being against it. And a lawsuit they lack confidence in (or they would have insisted on the hearing and tried to force it through before the new mayor)...

What gives you that idea? I'm not saying it won't happen for sure, but the signposts certainly seem to be pointing in the "no" direction.

[SXSW]

I thought for sure Simon would build the outlet mall by Turkey Mountain.  But people spoke up and the grassroots efforts created to stop it worked.  I am hopeful for the same outcome for Helmerich Park.

[PonderInc]

I doubt that REI meets Utica Square's minimum snob factor quotient; and I doubt REI wants to pay the $/SF required to achieve such lofty heights.  If a different developer wanted to work to bring an REI here, we could do something cool that would be a positive for Tulsa.  Pick almost any commercial intersection in town, and it wouldn't be hard to improve it.  With the current Dallas developer, we're just looking at more asphalt and stucco crap.  Nothing to see here. (Maybe they want to use that old Circuit City spot at Southroads.  Or hey, I know a defunct Borders store that's just sitting around...

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Or hey, I know a defunct Borders store that's just sitting around...

Speaking of the defunct Borders store... That place closed 5 years ago and that space of that building has been sitting there empty the entire time. Either the landlord is asking too much in rent or (and I can't figure out why), they are ok with just leaving it empty and getting zero income from the larger space. Sure, it might theoretically be a $15k+/month retail space, but if you can't what you're asking for 5+ years, lower the price until you get a renter. Even $2k/month is better than zero! Just rent it out as storage space if nothing else until you find a retail tenant.

The building has excellent highway visibility and is in a relatively high-populated area surrounded by high income earners. It is about 25,000 ft2 that is not used by the cleaning business. It looks like the owner bought it for $4 million in 2011 from Borders. $34k in taxes a year and a mortgage payment would be about $20k/month. It seems crazy they bought this place without any serious renters or plans to use it as a retail space.

Does anyone understand the economics of this? Even if they rented it out for a measly $2k/month for 5 years, that's $120,000 they missed out on, but considering if they had a mortgage, they've already paid $1.2 million+ on it. Surely they can split up parts of it to rent separately (like the coffee shop and maybe closing off upstairs for office space).

[AquaMan]

Who is "they"? That may explain some of it.

This same thing happened to downtown properties for decades. There are reasons, both economic and legal, that properties remain dormant.
Zoning, building layout that would require heavy investment in rebuild, high cost of rental that would diminish ROI, legal tie ups in ownership etc. Once a landlord succumbs to lowering rent or lowering the quality of the tenant its a dangerous road to travel. Hard to raise the rent, attract better tenants or afford to upgrade the building.

I used to rent office space in one of the nearby buildings. When Charlie Mitchell's closed I figured another restaurant/bar would open quickly because of all the lawyers, medical etc nearby. It was empty for a long time and eventually changed direction entirely. Even my office building was emptied out and totally remodeled to achieve higher rentals. 

Great location though. Parking lot was never easy to maneuver but do-able. Loved that place.

[patric]

I used to rent office space in one of the nearby buildings. When Charlie Mitchell's closed I figured another restaurant/bar would open quickly because of all the lawyers, medical etc nearby. It was empty for a long time and eventually changed direction entirely. Even my office building was emptied out and totally remodeled to achieve higher rentals. 

Great location though. Parking lot was never easy to maneuver but do-able. Loved that place.

But now you can have all the bagels you want, until 3pm.  Charlie Mitchells is missed.

[Conan71]

But now you can have all the bagels you want, until 3pm.  Charlie Mitchells is missed.

Probably my favorite location for Charlie's.  Ma Mitchell was usually there.

The reincarnation was really meh.  Another concept that simply should have been allowed to stay dead.