REI

[davideinstein]

If we were a sustainable city that Borders location would already have an REI.

We are a sprawling, sales tax addicted city however.

Sigh.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

If we were a sustainable city that Borders location would already have an REI.

We are a sprawling, sales tax addicted city however.

Sigh.

Or at least one of the many places which has had a brand new building built for it. Makes no sense to build and build and not use a nice existing building in a great location.

[DTowner]

I live near the empty Border's building and I would love to see it become something other than a monument to the demise of the brick and mortar book store.  However, I don't see that building being successfully repurposed as a big box retailer.  It is located on a retail island - isolated among office buildings.  Perhaps it could be divided up into a 6 or 8 smaller retail shops.  More likely, it should be recreated into office space.  That's not interesting or exciting, but better than sitting empty for the next decade.

[Conan71]

I live near the empty Border's building and I would love to see it become something other than a monument to the demise of the brick and mortar book store.  However, I don't see that building being successfully repurposed as a big box retailer.  It is located on a retail island - isolated among office buildings.  Perhaps it could be divided up into a 6 or 8 smaller retail shops.  More likely, it should be recreated into office space.  That's not interesting or exciting, but better than sitting empty for the next decade.

I thought it could have been a great Fresh Market or Sprouts though the two levels would be a bit awkward for a grocery store.

[SXSW]

I thought it could have been a great Fresh Market or Sprouts though the two levels would be a bit awkward for a grocery store.

Either one of those would be great there or, long shot, Whole Foods.  I know WF has done some locations with a mezzanine for their cafe and demonstration area.

[BKDotCom]

Sigh

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/proposal-could-resolve-dispute-over-sale-of-helmerich-park-land/article_840c12e1-df56-547c-b7e1-3bdf82d996d5.html

Proposal could resolve dispute over sale of Helmerich Park land

The Tulsa City Council has called a special meeting for Tuesday to hear a proposal from the Mayor's Office on how to resolve the nearly two-year dispute over development at Helmerich Park.

Mayor G.T. Bynum said he plans to offer a resolution to abandon park use for the portion eyed for development at the southwest corner 71st Street and Riverside Drive.
The meeting is scheduled for 10 a.m. Tuesday in the council chambers.
The group opposed to the original sale of the property has staked its key legal position on a claim that the city is first required to abandon the land's park use through a public process. It first took legal action to block the sale of the land in August 2015.
Bynum said abandonment of the property is not an indication that the city acted improperly in its original approach to the sale — only that the move is the clear mechanism to reach a resolution.

"What I don't want is for this to be decided in a courtroom where the elected representatives of the citizens don't have any say in the outcome of the property," Bynum said. "I think it's a far more beneficial vehicle for resolving it going this route through the council than it would be through the legal system."
The process to abandon park use of the property requires a City Council resolution. Once abandoned, the portion of Helmerich Park planned for development can move forward.

"Any abandonment for park purposes is not for all of Helmerich Park," Bynum said. "It would be for a fraction of it. And only if we can get to a point where we are certain that doing so would serve to benefit the rest of the park."

Bynum said details of his office's proposal to the council are still being worked out, and it will be up to the council to form any final resolution. However, he said the developers will be asked to make changes, and there would be a larger reinvestment into the remainder of Helmerich Park.
Elected officials have already promised to rebuild and improve volleyball courts that would be displaced by the planned development. Bynum said his proposal includes doing more than that.

"From a 30,000-foot level, my guess is that there are parts of the proposal that we ultimately submit to the council that the developer won't like and the plaintiffs in the lawsuit won't like," Bynum said. "But the goal of this is to find where that middle ground is that best serves the citizens, the community and the park."
Bynum said his proposal is an "outgrowth" of recent mediation he participated in between the city, developers and plaintiffs. Bynum said all the basic concepts of his proposal were discussed during the mediation process.

Councilor Anna America said Mayor's Office staff met individually with all the councilors last week to update them on the lawsuit and where things stand on a resolution.
Tuesday's special meeting is the result of those meetings and the mayor's staff coming up with a proposal, she said.
America said she helped draft the agenda for the meeting, which will include discussion of the Mayor's Office proposal, an executive session to discuss legal implications, public comment and a vote to abandon the property and reinvest funding into the rest of Helmerich Park.

"The developer and everyone else would really like this resolved," America said. "They think this is the best option moving forward, taking the hand everyone was dealt and coming up with the most positive resolution for everyone."

[Conan71]

I'm willing to be open-minded about this that a re-design of the original project could be an asset especially if it involves real investment in the park and an REI store which is not like their suburban Denver dreck.  Other than the playground and the volleyball courts the stretch between 71st & 81st has been derisively known as "the desert" by trail users for as long as I can remember.  If it allowed the city to finally improve it to Walt Helmerich's original vision, is it really all bad?

The cons still remain the same:

-I still don't see this as a panacea for raising city revenues, it will have a bigger tendency to scavenge from other retailers.  
-Are we still going to sell this land at about 1/2 the market rate (I think that's what we'd determined in this thread before)?
-It was announced yesterday Gander Mtn. is headed for bankruptcy which could affect their store recently opened near Highway 75.  Is this indicative of the industry itself?  What if this gets built and REI goes tits up in a couple of years?
-This will increase traffic at an intersection which is already very busy and southbound on Riverside appears to be the only access unless they added a light a few blocks down for northbound traffic to access which would be about as fun to navigate as any point on Memorial between 101st and 111th.

Again, trying to approach with an open mind.  Perhaps this is simply the difference in GT's management style and he's gracefully trying to get us out of this with the developer but at least going about it in the right way.  We shall see.

[patric]

The precedent this sets is chilling... What would proposals for donor-led projects like The Gathering Place look like in the future when donors consider gifts to the citizens can someday be sold off to private corporations?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Business as usual.  Bynum same as Dewby.

And to accompany today's reality...a little stroll back in time with The Who.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYMD_W_r3Fg

[BKDotCom]

I'm willing to be open-minded about this that a re-design of the original project could be an asset especially if it involves real investment in the park and an REI store which is not like their suburban Denver dreck.  Other than the playground and the volleyball courts the stretch between 71st & 81st has been derisively known as "the desert" by trail users for as long as I can remember.  If it allowed the city to finally improve it to Walt Helmerich's original vision, is it really all bad?

The cons still remain the same:

-I still don't see this as a panacea for raising city revenues, it will have a bigger tendency to scavenge from other retailers.  
-Are we still going to sell this land at about 1/2 the market rate (I think that's what we'd determined in this thread before)?
-It was announced yesterday Gander Mtn. is headed for bankruptcy which could affect their store recently opened near Highway 75.  Is this indicative of the industry itself?  What if this gets built and REI goes tits up in a couple of years?
-This will increase traffic at an intersection which is already very busy and southbound on Riverside appears to be the only access unless they added a light a few blocks down for northbound traffic to access which would be about as fun to navigate as any point on Memorial between 101st and 111th.

Again, trying to approach with an open mind.  Perhaps this is simply the difference in GT's management style and he's gracefully trying to get us out of this with the developer but at least going about it in the right way.  We shall see.

I actually agree.  It could be a cool.  Think of how well Elwoods adds to the park at 21st.   What we've seen proposed for Helmerich is the complete opposite of cool with zero integration with the park - it's just cookie cutter development for development's sake.   I just don't see this developer bridging the cool/integration gap enough.

[cannon_fodder]

I'm with the crowd on this one.  I'm open minded - that area could be developed and better utilized.  It could be an enhancement to the trail.  It could upgrade the park area.   It could draw people in an add to sales tax revenue.

But not if it is anything like the previous plan, which I viewed as selling land cheap in a largely closed door process, funding infrastructure, and ending up with a basic big box development with its back to the trail.  A development which doesn't seem to meet the new river overly zoning requirements (which it doesn't have to, but since it is City land they certainly could insist). All for the promise of sales tax revenue.  Which seems dubious.  

REI might be the world  greatest outdoor store, I've heard they treat their employees really well.  Good for them, I want them in Tulsa.  But I ask again - what am I going to buy from this chain that I don't already buy from Academy, Dicks, local shops, Sun & Ski, Midwest Sporting Goods, or Target/Walmart etc. ?  Now that Amazon is going to kick in sales tax revenue, add them to that list.  Or from Gander Mountain for that matter:

http://www.newson6.com/story/34505218/reuters-gander-mountain-to-file-for-bankruptcy

I fail to see how adding one more sporting good store will increase the amount of sporting goods Tulsans purchase.  And since there appears to be money on he table for infrastructure, the property tax revenue is likely a wash.  

And I'm STILL not against this development. I really want to see GT take the lead and show that we can do development well.  We own the land, we can make demands.  Demand an interesting development:  embrace the trail and river, meet the new zoning overlay, create a destination people would want to go to.  There are hundreds of places to drop in a big box, the reason there are people fighting over this sport is because it is special - lets treat it that way.

[DTowner]

Perhaps it would make more sense for REI to simply move into the soon to be vacated Gander Mountain store.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The sports/recreation store market looks to be way over-saturated here.  We got enough cookie cutter places - as much as I like the REI's I have been in - granted, only a couple -  don't see how that is gonna benefit Tulsa or bring anything new.  Just another chain...

[johrasephoenix]

Agreed that it could be cool if the developer completely redid the project and the city was able to extract money for the park.

That said, all of this greenfield big box retail coming online seems unhealthy for the city.  We have decaying shopping centers from the 70s and 80s that need to be replaced.... maybe this REI could go there?  It seems like once you get south of 41st street we have a ring of retail decay, where old shopping centers are reaching the end of their lifecycle and new retail keeps pushing further and further south. Instead of building Tulsa Hills where it is, needing all new expensive infrastructure, maybe that kind of development would have been better sited at the largely empty shopping center at 41st & Yale.

[PonderInc]

Sears is closing at 21st and Yale.  Hey REI! Here'a a nice location you could use! And, we've got all the stupid parking you could ever want there.  (My dad took me to the Sears parking lot to practice driving on ice, back in the 80's.)