15th and Carson

[carltonplace]

Anyone know what is proposed for this empty lot? The owner is looking for code variance

21812—Matt King - Variance to reduce the required side yard setback from 10 feet to 0 feet; Variance to reduce the setback from the centerline of 15th Street from 70 feet to 40 feet; Variance to increase the building height from 35 feet to 40 feet (Section 403.A, Table 1).  LOCATION:  1445 South Carson Avenue (CD 4) Exhibit

[Conan71]

I always cringe when I see anything that says: "variance", seems to mean a Bumgarner monstrosity.

[rdj]

Yes.  They are looking to build something like what is already in the area but the setbacks don't currently allow it.  From what I've seen I think its a good project.

[Townsend]

Were there apartments there at one time?  I ask because of the multiple staircases to 15th so close together.

[TheArtist]

I always cringe when I see anything that says: "variance", seems to mean a Bumgarner monstrosity.

It's when they don't ask for a "variance" that I cringe.  Remember most of Tulsa, even the historic older parts of town, is set up so that you have to build auto oriented, away from the sidewalk, lots of parking, no mixed use, etc. stuff.  The only way to get anything otherwise is to ask for a variance.

[carltonplace]

Yes.  They are looking to build something like what is already in the area but the setbacks don't currently allow it.  From what I've seen I think its a good project.

I don't mind some Brownstone type MF dwellings on this spot, as long as they are appropriate to the feel of the block and not in contest with it. Every other structure on Carson is a historically contributing Craftsman single family dwelling or a brick apartment building.

[carltonplace]

Were there apartments there at one time?  I ask because of the multiple staircases to 15th so close together.

based on the tiny little garage foot print I think it was a house with a front (Carson) and side (15th) entrance, but I don't know for sure.

[Conan71]

I don't mind some Brownstone type MF dwellings on this spot, as long as they are appropriate to the feel of the block and not in contest with it. Every other structure on Carson is a historically contributing Craftsman single family dwelling or a brick apartment building.

How about some Tuscan stucco, Carlton?

[dbacksfan 2.0]

It was a house with a detached garage.

Here is a link to the larger file.
http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getfile/collection/p16063coll3/id/28/filename/29.pdf

[carltonplace]

How about some Tuscan stucco, Carlton?

There is a stucco house on this street, but none with ceramic tile roof. I guess I wouldn't really care as long as its not ultra modern (which I like, but just not stuck up against a classic craftsman).

[rdj]

My perception is the folks behind the project are very sensitive to the neighborhood and will likely visit with the HOA to garner support rather than have them find out at the hearing.

[TheArtist]

I used to really hate the idea of someone building something in an area with that styrofoam/stucco stuff on the outside.  But then when I started imagining say taking out a loan and building something myself... I changed my opinion.  You can always upgrade the outside later, if the building itself is just the same on the inside as it would be if you did brick or stone to begin with.  I think a development would do better if I had for example 3 storefronts with a "fake" exterior than 1 storefront with a brick or stone exterior. If I started out having more spaces cheaply done, I think the over all development would be more successful than if I had fewer spaces "expensively" done.  If you have an over all dream that you want to build and grow, that you want to expand and make better as time goes on, you could always tear down the cheap stuff and build something bigger and better later, or upgrade the facades later.  But sometimes you need a critical mass to get things really moving or to make those first risky steps work out economically. Sure if you have a bigger budget and can go whole hog right off, great will make more economic sense long term. But if your on a budget, sometimes you have to make tough decisions on how best to get from point A to B.

[carltonplace]

Artist renderings

[SXSW]

Is that the same project or two separate ones?  I like the top image better.

[carltonplace]

Two different designs for the same project.

Agreed, the top one is much better and suits the neighborhood of craftsman homes