Airbus Disaster

[DolfanBob]

I know there are a few on here that knows quite a bit about Aviation. So I wanted to get your take on this tragedy performed by a man that to me seems awfully easy for him to pull off. A reinforced door. Slide a chair and fly everyone to their death. The first theory was cracked glass and loss of air pressure in the cockpit leading to unconscious pilots.
I'll never understand the suicidal mind wanting to hurt innocent people they don't even know.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html

[swake]

I know there are a few on here that knows quite a bit about Aviation. So I wanted to get your take on this tragedy performed by a man that to me seems awfully easy for him to pull off. A reinforced door. Slide a chair and fly everyone to their death. The first theory was cracked glass and loss of air pressure in the cockpit leading to unconscious pilots.
I'll never understand the suicidal mind wanting to hurt innocent people they don't even know.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html

Sounds like a problem that was "fixed" by having cockpit doors that couldn't be broken into after 9/11

[Breadburner]

I was under the impressions one person could not be left in the cock pit alone......

[Hoss]

I was under the impressions one person could not be left in the cock pit alone......

US only evidently.  Europe doesn't have the same rules.

[swake]

US only evidently.  Europe doesn't have the same rules.

Yet

[DolfanBob]

The article says that he received awards from the FAA. Is that a International organization or just here in the States?

[Jammie]

The article says that he received awards from the FAA. Is that a International organization or just here in the States?

It must be similar since they interviewed a man from that organization Thursday. He said he stood behind everything they do and how they screen and do follow ups with their pilots. He got downright nasty with a reporter who did a follow up question.

It looks like Germany and possibly more of Europe will also require two in the cockpit. Like one person pointed out, that wouldn't be fool proof if, for example, a stewardess was in the cockpit with an armed co-pilot who had these same intentions, her options would be few.

This morning they're reporting that they've found evidence as to the "Why". In his troubled mind, he had written, "I just want people to remember me." Guess he didn't care if he'd be remembered in a good way or bad way, as long as he was remembered.

[Jammie]

Yesterday I was watching TWC (The weather channel), as usual. I'd never watched, "Why Planes Crash" because I'm a fidgety flyer to start with and I don't need anything added to that. Well, I decided to see if I could watch a story or two about it and learned something quite interesting. It seems there may have been several instances in the past where quite similar things have happened. I don't know why the media/investigators didn't come right out and say it was pilot error.

If you get a chance to watch some of those episodes, I'd recommend it. Remember Air Florida that flew into a bridge and landed in the Potomac? I vaguely remember an investigation going on about it, but didn't hear the pilot as ever being condemned or an investigation into his psychological well-being. Neither the pilot or the first officer were that familiar with flying in snowstorms, but there seems to be more wrong with the incident then that. They aired the cockpit conversation and it was obvious the pilot wasn't really concerned that the plane wasn't de-iced again, didn't even turn on the internal de-icing even after the first officer asked about it, paid no attention to the first officer as he said, "This isn't right. This isn't right" during take-off. The pilot made no attempt to abort the flight. As they were nearing the bridge, he made no attempt to do anything. TWC interviewed aviators who made several suggestions at how he could've saved the crash from happening, such as increasing the speed at take-off, going full throttle as soon as they saw the bridge, etc.  or either just aborting to start with. The last thing on the black box was when the first officer said, "Larry, we're going down. Larry, we're going down." The pilot said, "I know."

I caught a big of the second story and don't even know which crashes that involved, but one of the airlines had a prez that was a nasty and intimidating bully and pilots flew even when they didn't feel it was safe to take off. They did it out of the fear of losing their job and there were crashes just because of this. Anyway, found it all interesting that similar things have been happening all along.

[Ed W]

Read about the "Dirty Dozen" on the FAA website for insight into pilot and maintenance errors responsible for crashes.

[Gaspar]

The solution is typically the opposite of what government regulations prescribe (micro and macro), therefore we can conclude with a high degree of certainty that the solution is. . .

Remove all locks from the cockpit doors. 

Once in the air, an aircraft becomes a community, with the highest authority and control existing in the cockpit. By locking the cockpit doors we surrender to a tyranny (hopefully a benevolent tyranny, but a tyranny none the less).  By removing that barrier we empower the crew and passengers to take whatever reasonable action is necessary to overthrow that tyranny when necessary.

On 911, flight 93 is the perfect example.  After the passengers learned the fate of the three other planes, their perceptions of the outcome a hijacking changed.  They took the necessary actions against 4 hijackers that had already killed the pilots, and saved who knows how may innocent lives.

Had the passengers on the other 911 planes known what we know today, I doubt any of hijackers, would have ever made it to the cockpit.  Perhaps the greatest lesson of flight 93 is just now being learned?  When we concentrate power, we surrender freedom, and bad things happen.

[Ed W]

Bullshat. You may remember that the original reason for reinforcing cockpit doors resulted from terrorists taking over the flight decks of 4 aircraft. You're  suggesting we make it easier for that to happen again. Airlines ain't gonna do it.

[Breadburner]

They definitely should be secure......

[Hoss]

They definitely should be secure......

There should also be some sort of failsafe or even a ground-based remote override...with a panic button on the door outside.

Just my opinion.

RA, I went up for my first flight in about 8 years on Saturday.  Friend and I few to 3O9 (Grand Lake/Monkey Island).  I forgot how much I loved flying.

[Conan71]

Now, wait.  Gaspar is on to something here.  So it goes that security in the post 9-11 world is that we have carefully screened passengers to the point it's rare for an outburst or take over to happen.  How much screening to the people in the cockpit have?

Let's not forget some of the the "substitute" pilots on 9-11 had gone to flight school.  Who is to say that there aren't future terrorists already starting careers with air carriers in full knowledge that they cannot be over-whelmed by passengers to stop such a thing as what happened in this incident?

[Ed W]

As I recall, all of us inside the security perimeter have passed background checks. I'd assume that was conducted at the federal level given their greater resources.