Downtown Development Overview

[shavethewhales]

Yup, I posted about it back in August. They've been working for awhile! I think it may even wrap around to the building East of Gitwit. It almost looks like Gitwit is expanding their offices into that part. Maybe they are turning the rest of it into more spec-lease offices, or maybe they will be more lofts?

[LandArchPoke]

Someone posted about the warehouse off Cameron & Detroit on why nothings been done to it yet - there's now a pending Board of Adjustment request on parking. Looks like they might be wanting to put parking behind it but want the aisle width smaller than code allows.

http://www.tulsaplanning.org/cityboa/cases/BOA-23201.pdf

[LandArchPoke]

Also, something else I'm surprised hasn't gotten more attention is the First Baptist 'caring center'

http://www.tulsaplanning.org/cityboa/cases/BOA-23146.pdf

Looks like a few developer's downtown are not too happy about it. I'm conflicted. The site should probably be turned into retail or something since it's such a prime location but I'm also not too sure if smashing all the social services into one small area of the city is really the best thing either.

This is an active case and was continued for more debate.

[swake]

Also, something else I'm surprised hasn't gotten more attention is the First Baptist 'caring center'

http://www.tulsaplanning.org/cityboa/cases/BOA-23146.pdf

Looks like a few developer's downtown are not too happy about it. I'm conflicted. The site should probably be turned into retail or something since it's such a prime location but I'm also not too sure if smashing all the social services into one small area of the city is really the best thing either.

This is an active case and was continued for more debate.

I actually like putting services like this close to where the people that use them are. That sounds like the jail area with the homeless services. Unless is this intended more for the working poor that are not homeless.

[LandArchPoke]

I actually like putting services like this close to where the people that use them are. That sounds like the jail area with the homeless services. Unless is this intended more for the working poor that are not homeless.

I believe most of what that center does is provides clothes to homeless versus working poor. I could be wrong though.

They are wanting part of the right of way abandoned that's to the east of the building that is there now. They are wanting to expand but I don't know what that really would entail, there's no renderings I can find, or if they'd be adding services like meals or other things too once it's expanded.

[swake]

I believe most of what that center does is provides clothes to homeless versus working poor. I could be wrong though.

They are wanting part of the right of way abandoned that's to the east of the building that is there now. They are wanting to expand but I don't know what that really would entail, there's no renderings I can find, or if they'd be adding services like meals or other things too once it's expanded.

Then I would rather it be by the jail. Locate it conveniently for the homeless, not for the church. Most homeless don't have cars and the shelters are other services are over by the jail. There's that strip of storefronts behind the Juvenile Justice Center near Iron Gate. That would be a good location.

Most working poor have cars in Tulsa, so it wouldn't be as big a deal to locate it at the church, but if it's focused on the homeless, that is a bad location.

[shavethewhales]

The caring center is a good ministry, but I totally understand the neighbors not enjoying the traffic it brings. As the objection letter states, the homeless have to basically hang around this area all day waiting to be fed, but there's no where for them to really go between meals. We have more comprehensive services and a day center near the jail. I know there are bleeding hearts that will jump at the chance to decry objections to this, but it does make sense to have a central location for these services, and if you are going to provide a service to the homeless you should be prepared for all the issues that they bring with them. It's interesting that he notes that the homeless just dump the old clothing when they get new stuff. It's not like they have washing machines over there. If they were nearer to the day center and other ministries they could have access to more expansive services like that. I'm sure some will scoff at keeping the homeless stuck in one area of town around the jail though.

In other news, the old El Guapo's location has been repainted again. The new black and white motif makes me think they will put in their asian concept here instead of bringing back El Guapo's. Not sure why they are changing, since El Guapo's was popular, but maybe the weekday numbers were better with the asian fusion trial.

[SXSW]

Sounds like a similar situation as Iron Gate which moved out of this area of downtown

[LandArchPoke]

Just noticed that First Christian Church is for sale, not just the parking lots - the entire property including the buildings. They own the parking lot east of the building and east of Main that goes up to the TCC Creativity Center building on Boston.

Anyone heard about why the church is up for sale? It's such a beautiful building - could make an interesting conversion into office space or something.

[shavethewhales]

Oh man, it is such a gorgeous building. That stained glass dome is a marvel. The building just turned 100 last year. https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/first-christian-church-celebrates-100-years-at-ninth-and-boulder-location/article_1cc3f360-0e9d-5635-9c14-26ea6de87dd6.html

There is nothing mentioned on their FB page, but you can see in the most recent video that the pews are basically empty on Sunday. The church has less 'likes' than many physically much smaller churches in my little neighborhood. I'm guessing it's another example of a congregation dying off and the younger generations going to more charismatic churches rather than the older style denominations. I'm surprised this congregation is moving on before the church of Christ scientist, which I know has been close to moving on for awhile now. Won't be much of a church district for much longer, at least not in the true sense of the world.

We definitely need to work as a community to preserve the building. I don't know if an office makes sense, but it would be great for TCC to buy up and use somehow.

[LandArchPoke]

Oh man, it is such a gorgeous building. That stained glass dome is a marvel. The building just turned 100 last year. https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/first-christian-church-celebrates-100-years-at-ninth-and-boulder-location/article_1cc3f360-0e9d-5635-9c14-26ea6de87dd6.html

There is nothing mentioned on their FB page, but you can see in the most recent video that the pews are basically empty on Sunday. The church has less 'likes' than many physically much smaller churches in my little neighborhood. I'm guessing it's another example of a congregation dying off and the younger generations going to more charismatic churches rather than the older style denominations. I'm surprised this congregation is moving on before the church of Christ scientist, which I know has been close to moving on for awhile now. Won't be much of a church district for much longer, at least not in the true sense of the world.

We definitely need to work as a community to preserve the building. I don't know if an office makes sense, but it would be great for TCC to buy up and use somehow.

I had the same thought with TCC and turn it into a campus expansion too - not sure if TCC is willing to spend the $$ on something like that though.

Whatever use it's turned into should be compatible with the layout of the building to preserve as much character as possible. I feel like the southern part of the church could likely be converted to multifamily easily but the bigger domed part on the north I feel like needs to be a use where you can preserve the openness (something like open floor office or even classrooms/student type use)

Here's a conversion in Europe, church was turned into a bookstore: https://www.dezeen.com/2007/12/04/a-shop-in-a-church-by-merkx-girod-architecten/

Something like that would be interesting, turn it into a library and classroom space for TCC? With the right owner it could be turned into something really cool - just hope they aren't desperate to get rid of it and don't sell it to just anyone. There's no listing price on the marketing materials from CBRE.

Oddly too CBRE's LA North office is a converted Masonic Temple and was a good use of preserving the 'open' feeling of the building:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QwyjS-f4Nc
https://www.gensler.com/projects/cbre-la-north-masonic-temple

[SXSW]

This could be a golden opportunity for TCC to expand its campus and preserve a really unique structure downtown.  Interested to see what happens.

[tulsabug]

Oh man, it is such a gorgeous building. That stained glass dome is a marvel. The building just turned 100 last year. https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/first-christian-church-celebrates-100-years-at-ninth-and-boulder-location/article_1cc3f360-0e9d-5635-9c14-26ea6de87dd6.html

There is nothing mentioned on their FB page, but you can see in the most recent video that the pews are basically empty on Sunday. The church has less 'likes' than many physically much smaller churches in my little neighborhood. I'm guessing it's another example of a congregation dying off and the younger generations going to more charismatic churches rather than the older style denominations. I'm surprised this congregation is moving on before the church of Christ scientist, which I know has been close to moving on for awhile now. Won't be much of a church district for much longer, at least not in the true sense of the world.

We definitely need to work as a community to preserve the building. I don't know if an office makes sense, but it would be great for TCC to buy up and use somehow.

I'm totally down with converting it into an evil lair. It would be so cool to have that main dome open to launch missiles from.

/ okay - I'll admit that's probably not the re-purposing direction most people would take it but damn - talk about some world domination headquarters potential!

[TheArtist]

Omg, would make a great science/natural history museum.  I would love that building as a DECOPOLIS Discovitorium store/attraction/museum.  Giant steampunk orrery in the center under the dome, along with some dinosaur skeletons, etc. What I could do in a space like that!  BUT I am totally burnt out of trying to make anything downtown work lol.

[LandArchPoke]

Omg, would make a great science/natural history museum.  I would love that building as a DECOPOLIS Discovitorium store/attraction/museum.  Giant steampunk orrery in the center under the dome, along with some dinosaur skeletons, etc. What I could do in a space like that!  BUT I am totally burnt out of trying to make anything downtown work lol.

The dome would be a really cool area to have a big dinosaur.

Maybe turn this into the Route 66 Museum and then do some mixed-use development on the parking lots - retail ground floor, parking garage, student housing, etc.