Downtown Development Overview

[sgrizzle]

Critical need!!

We have gone downtown more and more over the last 5 - 6 years and enjoy it a lot!  Until this year....more people are having the same thoughts, so traffic and parking has become such a hassle that I bet we haven't been there more than 8 or 10 times this year...way down from previous.

I live near 71st. Traffic is up everywhere and downtown is still a breeze.

And China is building a high speed rail for ONE event - the winter Olympics!!  For crying out loud, they are essentially building this to go from "New York" to "Coweta"!!  For a few weeks worth of use!!  Why the blue blazes can't we get decent transit for full time use for decades??  The psychosis in this state is mind numbing!!

China also pays like a nickel a day for labor and no union-negotiated benefits.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You raise great points. I was merely trying to point out that the congestion isn't THAT bad. If you are willing to walk a bit, you can get in and out with minimal problems.

But you are absolutely correct, it will inevitably get worse unless better planning is implemented. As it becomes more of a hassle, the self feeding growth will grind to a halt and become self defeating growth --- unless better transit options are available.

Very well put.

We usually intentionally park at least a couple of blocks from where we are going - get some exercise and get to "sight see".  One exception is Spaghetti Warehouse - we will park in their lot, then when done eating, walk a few blocks around just to look at stuff.


Ideally, would park south of TCC in the new 15 level parking garage on that entire block (6 levels underground, 9 above), then hop on the shuttle/bus/train to get to central core downtown.  Then hop on again for trip back.  Or Cherry Street.  Or Brookside.  Etc...

[carltonplace]

Besides the demolition at Archer and Elgin on the site of the future ARG project there is a construction fence at 5th and Cheyenne for the Marriott Residence Inn. I think the entrance will be on 5th St which is going to make that interection look really cool with two handsome hotels catty-corner from each other.

[TheArtist]

Besides the demolition at Archer and Elgin on the site of the future ARG project there is a construction fence at 5th and Cheyenne for the Marriott Residence Inn. I think the entrance will be on 5th St which is going to make that interection look really cool with two handsome hotels catty-corner from each other.

Kewl, I think that is one of my old photos.  Years and years ago I went around town taking photos and posted them online, free for anyone to use.  Funny how even today I still see them crop up here and there. 

[DowntownDan]

Awesome.  I try not to get too excited about projects until dirt starts moving.  We've been burned too many times.

[carltonplace]

"The Edge" Apartment complex by ARG is putting up the fourth floor today, they are crushing it.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

All I can say is this is a very real project. A group was at ICSC promoting the development to retailers and ARG will be the apartment developer and will have around 300 units. Office building will be around 150,000 sq. ft. which is sorely needed. Likely this will be staged to where the Edge will deliver and give an 8 month lease up window and stabilization period, then the Ballpark development would likely deliver with a similar 8 month to 1 year lease up and stabilization period, then the Santa Fe Station apartments will come online.

It's likely that the surface parking lot by the PAC will be under development too around the same time with a retail component but not sure whether it will have office or multifamily at the moment.

Downtown will quickly be changing.

I might be more excited about this than Santa Fe Station - this is AWESOME!!

I wanted to do something very similar here after seeing this: http://www.boxpark.co.uk
It's such a cool concept and shipping containers are very easy to convert for pop-up shops, small food places, and other longer-term small retailers. I hope they bring in some national brands to help test the waters for downtown retail.

Update on the Boxyard Tulsa: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/dwelling-spaces-masa-to-be-anchor-tenants-for-the-boxyard/article_80d5d2a2-0ecd-585f-802d-21a9d39dd920.html

Dwelling Spaces and Joebot's Coffee Bar, along with Masa restaurant, will be the anchor tenants for The Boxyard development, it was announced Tuesday.
The Boxyard is named for shipping containers that will be retrofitted with an urban chic design to house each retail and restaurant space. It will be located on the southeast corner of Third Street and Frankfort Avenue, and is scheduled to open in spring 2016.
Dwelling Spaces and Joebot's Coffee Bar will occupy five shipping containers totaling 1,600 square feet. They will relocate to The Boxyard from their existing space at Second Street and Detroit Avenue, which opened in 2006.
Masa, which will expand from its current food truck operation to a permanent site at The Boxyard, also will occupy five of the 8-foot-by-30-foot containers.
Mary Beth Babcock, owner of Dwelling Spaces, will serve as the property's programming manager. She will plan a variety of events, such as live entertainment, book launches, arts and crafts workshops and movie screenings.
"Our goal with The Boxyard is to bring together quality local businesses in a unique space to create a retail experience that you can't find anywhere else in Tulsa," developer Casey Stowe said in a release.
"Taking time to curate prospective tenants and working with Mary Beth to bring interesting programming to The Boxyard allows us to create something truly transformative for downtown."
Dwelling Spaces is a gift shop with a heavy emphasis on Oklahoma styles and products. Joebot's Coffee Bar is a high-end espresso bar located inside Dwelling Spaces.
"It's a dream to work with such talented entrepreneurs on a visionary, creative project like The Boxyard," Babcock said. "I've been playing retail ever since I was 8 years old, and I've always looked for ways to be different and give the customer a unique experience."
Masa, owned by Robert Carnoske and Chad Wilcox, specializes in South American cuisine with dishes such as empanadas, Cuban sandwiches and arepa (corn bread).
Masa recently added inside dining space at its kitchen at 7996 S. Sheridan Road.
"We are very excited about opening a location at The Boxyard as part of our expansion from our food truck to permanent locations," Carnoske said."The Tulsa community is eager for new and different culinary options, and we enjoy helping people experience the South American cuisine we love so much."

I recently visited the Downtown Container Park in Veagas (downtowncontainerpark.com). It was really neat. Very interesting and eclectic with a notable lack of large corporation influence. In other words, not at all what Vegas is known for. I hope Tulsa's is remotely close. It was a great atmosphere and had several good bars/restaurants.

[carltonplace]

So far our downtown has a notable lack of corporate retail/restaurant and it's the local folks that are driving the growth and filling the needs.
In downtown we have three subways, a dominos, arbys, supercuts and a bunch of chain hotels
Everything else that I can think of is either a Tulsa original or a local owned franchise.

Not a single starbucks, but tons of coffee choices. I don't believe that any other comparable downtown can make this claim.

[rdj]

So far our downtown has a notable lack of corporate retail/restaurant and it's the local folks that are driving the growth and filling the needs.
In downtown we have three subways, a dominos, arbys, supercuts and a bunch of chain hotels
Everything else that I can think of is either a Tulsa original or a local owned franchise.

Not a single starbucks, but tons of coffee choices. I don't believe that any other comparable downtown can make this claim.

That is because the demographics when pulled by real estate folks don't fit the minimum standards of the national chains.  The per-capita income of the residents within the downtown census blocks needs to increase along with traffic counts and you'll see some of the chains start moving in.  This is typical of "gentrification", the local groups have the vision and invest their capital, drive the demographics and traffic counts up and the national money seeking an less risky investment follows suit driving the prices up and the local groups out, local groups then move on to the next spot and you rinse and repeat. 

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

That is because the demographics when pulled by real estate folks don't fit the minimum standards of the national chains.  The per-capita income of the residents within the downtown census blocks needs to increase along with traffic counts and you'll see some of the chains start moving in.  This is typical of "gentrification", the local groups have the vision and invest their capital, drive the demographics and traffic counts up and the national money seeking an less risky investment follows suit driving the prices up and the local groups out, local groups then move on to the next spot and you rinse and repeat. 

There's also the Jimmy John's which seems to be pretty picky on locations. I'm guessing they went in for the 9-5 crowd. They close much earlier than others (one on 11th open til 3am).

Overall I love the small privately-own  businesses more than chains. Certain chains have interesting enough places or good enough products to still add to an interesting urban vibe (Trader Joes, Jimmy Johns, H&M). I hope Tulsa entrepreneurs continue to embrace the risk of opening downtown as the population increases so that the atmosphere keeps improving.

[DowntownDan]

I wonder what will go in to the current Dwelling Spaces.  It's a large space and good location, especially if they develop the PAC lot.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I wonder what will go in to the current Dwelling Spaces.  It's a large space and good location, especially if they develop the PAC lot.

I heard it was a Norstroms or a Fresh Market or even an REI 

That's a good question. That should be a great spot for someone. I'm glad Dwelling Spaces is moving to the Boxyard. Good tenants should anchor it.

[TheArtist]

I am actually ok with the big retail chains not coming in just now.  I am using the "breathing space" so to speak to learn and grow and get my ducks in a row so that I can be more competitive once the other guys do come in.  Course the other notion would be, that if a unique "draw" type retailer were to enter downtown that pulled in people from all over to shop, that could help. 

This Box Car thing puts me into an interesting thought process.

  Do I stay where I am at and slowly split off sections of my store to expand and create other stores in my area, and in effect try to create another shopping area?  (would the process be too slow and leave my area lagging behind and losing) Or should I perhaps inquire about having a small shop in one of the Box Car spaces?  That area, if the bigger players continue to add more retail spaces and work to add more retail tenants, could really anchor in retail wise and become "the place to shop downtown".  Not sure I could manage doing both at this time.   

[sgrizzle]

I wonder what will go in to the current Dwelling Spaces.  It's a large space and good location, especially if they develop the PAC lot.

It's actually not that big. Like half a Jimmy Johns.

[Conan71]

Just an aside to the article for purely nonsensical reasons:

My company outfits shipping containers and semi trailers with portable boiler rooms on a regular basis.  I've had fits trying to get 8 x 30 containers.  I can find all the 8 x 20 and 8 x 40, but can never seem to get the 30's.  The broker I work with puts it this way: "A 30 ft. container is like a happy wife.  I've heard of them at least once, but never seen one of them personally."