Downtown Development Overview

[rdj]

Maybe Nelson-Stowe is pulling an end around with Simon and fooling everyone!

http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/city-indoor-malls-new-downtown-outlet-centers

[LandArchPoke]

I'm referring to these buildings east of "project 21"...isn't this the old Nordam?

The parking lot to the west of the buildings is owned by CORE LLC... they are a group of local investors that have "plans" for a mixed-use development and have spoken with several consultants on what to do with the property. They own the old KOTV studio (which is why it is labeled 21 as well).

Nordam basically owns everything east of that, north of 6th street, and south of 4th street (except for the PSO substation). From what I've heard is Nordam is wanting way to much for the site - however, as the much development is going that direction I know what group that is in the process of trying to buy it, and not sure if it will be a good thing for Downtown if they do. That is far from a concrete plan, the deal hasn't closed, and would be a little while off before any announcement if it did happen.

Is All Souls no longer planning a move to the 6th & Frankfort site just south of #21?  I hadn't heard anything about that proposal in awhile but it sounded great because it would occupy that vacant grassy lot and the parking lot across the street. 

I assume they are still... the LLC that bought the land for them still owns that lot and the full block to the northwest. I had forgotten about them when I made this map. Someone on here before said it would still require fundraising for them to build on the site.

[SXSW]

I'm referring to these buildings east of "project 21"...isn't this the old Nordam?

Does Nordam not still occupy at least part of that site?  It's listed on their website as the location for Nordam Prism, whatever that is.

[LandArchPoke]

Does Nordam not still occupy at least part of that site?  It's listed on their website as the location for Nordam Prism, whatever that is.

They do, but they are willing sellers for a substantial amount. Not sure if they would consolidate what they do in the downtown site to other properties they have or if they would build a new building somewhere. I'm not entirely sure what they use the site now for either.

[cbs]

I keep seeing that "East End Village lofts" (#22) are "delayed by lawsuits" or something? I know for a fact that people are currently living there. I toured the lofts/apartments myself a couple weeks ago and there are about 10 units that are currently occupied by residents in my estimate. I don't think they're that great of an option - it feels kind of like a college dorm hall. I was quoted $1050 for a 2 bedroom unit with no outside facing windows (there were 2 nice but small skylights) that seemed nice but wasn't what I was looking for. They also seemed to have started construction on the 2nd of the 2 buildings on that lot, so why do I keep hearing about lawsuits?

[swake]

I keep seeing that "East End Village lofts" (#22) are "delayed by lawsuits" or something? I know for a fact that people are currently living there. I toured the lofts/apartments myself a couple weeks ago and there are about 10 units that are currently occupied by residents in my estimate. I don't think they're that great of an option - it feels kind of like a college dorm hall. I was quoted $1050 for a 2 bedroom unit with no outside facing windows (there were 2 nice but small skylights) that seemed nice but wasn't what I was looking for. They also seemed to have started construction on the 2nd of the 2 buildings on that lot, so why do I keep hearing about lawsuits?

One of the sub contractors has posted here a couple of times complaining about payment issues from the contractor.

[SXSW]

They do, but they are willing sellers for a substantial amount. Not sure if they would consolidate what they do in the downtown site to other properties they have or if they would build a new building somewhere. I'm not entirely sure what they use the site now for either.

That would be huge for downtown.  New residential and mixed-use projects are great to see but big companies moving hundreds of employees downtown are needed to sustain that growth.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

http://www.tulsafrontier.com/hyperlocal-topgolf-looking-for-ace-location-in-tulsa/

Well here's one option on the drawing board for that Nordam site. Hello Topgolf, goodbye pedestrian lively.

They're also looking at the Mid-Continent Concrete plant site on the west bank of the river at 21st Street & Jackson. Expect zero interaction with the river—and not just because there won't be any water in it!

[ZYX]

Yeah...no thanks.

[LandArchPoke]

Don't say I didn't tell you so. I believe a few people even told me "TopGolf will never go downtown - that's just stupid".

This TopGolf development would be devastating to downtown. Closing off a street along with a HUGE amount of surface parking. Would kill any hopes of the East Village turning into something special and would kill any hopes of connectivity via 6th Street/Pearl District into downtown.

The Westbank would be a better option, I think the FinTube site wouldn't be terrible either. It won't have any interaction with the River and will put more surface parking fronting those $300 million dams that are looking more and more and more like a huge waste of money if this is what we are going to except in terms of "economic development"

[Conan71]

40% of that development would be surface parking?  No thanks.

[carltonplace]

I hope the mayor hasn't seen this. All of that parking will make him so excited his cell phone might catch fire.

[swake]

http://www.tulsafrontier.com/hyperlocal-topgolf-looking-for-ace-location-in-tulsa/

Well here's one option on the drawing board for that Nordam site. Hello Topgolf, goodbye pedestrian lively.

They're also looking at the Mid-Continent Concrete plant site on the west bank of the river at 21st Street & Jackson. Expect zero interaction with the river—and not just because there won't be any water in it!

Oh He!l no.

[DowntownDan]

I would be okay with that location if done right, but they, of course, won't do it right.  By "right" I mean that parking lot on sixth street be infilled with shops or restaurants, and the same with the lots to the west all the way to Elgin.  Incorporate a parking garage somewhere (with retail on the bottom floor) for the district to share. Everything I just said would go in one ear and out the other though with the other based on history.

The reason the location is otherwise good is that it would attract people for an evening of downtown entertainment in the East Village.  A drink, some shopping, and some golf.  The top golfs in Dallas have started infill near them, though they are suburban in nature and a downtown Tulsa location would need to be different in design.  The point being that it attracts people, which is good.

As we've seen with REI, though, there seems to be little regard for these types of matters, and if Top Golf is willing to pay Nordam what they want, we're gonna be stuck with it.  I just hope that infill continues around the asphalt ocean by the right types of people.  

[ZYX]

That site is completely ridiculous. Why is there no zoning downtown to prevent this type of development from happening? No one can go something build up to the street with minimal parking at 101st and memorial, so why is it perfectly legal for someone to build a huge suburban development with 4 acres of parking in downtown?