Downtown Development Overview

[TheArtist]

That site is completely ridiculous. Why is there no zoning downtown to prevent this type of development from happening? No one can go something build up to the street with minimal parking at 101st and memorial, so why is it perfectly legal for someone to build a huge suburban development with 4 acres of parking in downtown?

Because certain property owners downtown fight against there being any zoning and they get their way.  "Why take away peoples freedom to do what they want with their own property?"  "The free market will find the best solution, if something doesn't work, it won't last for what works will eventually be put in its place." etc. etc.

When I tried to get the zoning overlay potential for downtown into the new comprehensive plan.  Well the vote was last month, I did what I could.  The vote was one for (moi).... everyone else against.

I still think the most important thing we need to do or that even Tulsa Now could do, is to inform people in these positions what pedestrian friendly zoning and such is.  Many of the people on the DCC probably don't know much if anything about the issue and nobody asked questions.  Some came up to me afterwards and apologized saying they just didn't know enough about the issue, (though I thought I explained things as best I could) and felt bad. 

The zoning overlay potential would not have even put any zoning in downtown, but would have allowed property owners themselves to have zoning on their own property (after they went through a lengthy process and the zoning change was shown to advance the downtown master plan).  But even this minor thing was shot down. 

The only way to get zoning downtown is to write in to the Plan-Tulsa in support of it, and speak to your local city councilor and let them know you would support it.

[LandArchPoke]

Unfortunately zoning wouldn't keep this from happening.

This goes back to an attempt that Blake Ewing tried to pass and was shot down - a moratorium on surface parking in the CBD (a.k.a. one of many thing's Denver did to turn their downtown around).

The only thing that would keep this from happening is an organized group of citizens who want to see smart growth in Downtown. Start a petition, get the word out. Write Top Golf and bombard them with emails about how you will never visit them if they are intent on destroying the downtown environment but would love to visit their site if they pick a better site or figure out a way to have no surface parking in the development (mixed-uses).

Also, I'm hoping some in the city will stand up to this and say no - this would require them to sell the ROW for Kenosha and 5th Street. This is such a HUGE mistake if it were to happen. I just can't see Blake being happy with this, and I commend him for trying to do things like the parking moratorium even when shot down. I think this is something that would be worth bringing up again Blake if you are reading. I think the environment in downtown is much different from when this was last proposed and I think it would see way more traction now than it did the first time.

[swake]

Unfortunately zoning wouldn't keep this from happening.

This goes back to an attempt that Blake Ewing tried to pass and was shot down - a moratorium on surface parking in the CBD (a.k.a. one of many thing's Denver did to turn their downtown around).

The only thing that would keep this from happening is an organized group of citizens who want to see smart growth in Downtown. Start a petition, get the word out. Write Top Golf and bombard them with emails about how you will never visit them if they are intent on destroying the downtown environment but would love to visit their site if they pick a better site or figure out a way to have no surface parking in the development (mixed-uses).

Also, I'm hoping some in the city will stand up to this and say no - this would require them to sell the ROW for Kenosha and 5th Street. This is such a HUGE mistake if it were to happen. I just can't see Blake being happy with this, and I commend him for trying to do things like the parking moratorium even when shot down. I think this is something that would be worth bringing up again Blake if you are reading. I think the environment in downtown is much different from when this was last proposed and I think it would see way more traction now than it did the first time.

It closes a street, it's got to have approval.

[LandArchPoke]

It closes a street, it's got to have approval.

Exactly. If no one speaks up though - it will be approved before you can blink. I have no idea who has to "approve" the sale/closing of a street and ROW, but we've all seen what has happened with city land at 71st and Riverside.

[DowntownDan]

I keep seeing that "East End Village lofts" (#22) are "delayed by lawsuits" or something? I know for a fact that people are currently living there. I toured the lofts/apartments myself a couple weeks ago and there are about 10 units that are currently occupied by residents in my estimate. I don't think they're that great of an option - it feels kind of like a college dorm hall. I was quoted $1050 for a 2 bedroom unit with no outside facing windows (there were 2 nice but small skylights) that seemed nice but wasn't what I was looking for. They also seemed to have started construction on the 2nd of the 2 buildings on that lot, so why do I keep hearing about lawsuits?

There's been some activity this week and their facebook has been posting pretty consistently over the last two weeks.  Has there been a resolution?

[natedog784]

It closes a street, it's got to have approval.

The streets within the boundaries of the site plan were closed years ago.

[swake]

The streets within the boundaries of the site plan were closed years ago.

Seriously.

Another Tulsa fail.

[saintnicster]

Kenosha is closed between 4th and 6th?  Could've fooled me

[natedog784]

It's private property, yes.

[SXSW]

I'm curious to see what Top Golf's riverfront plan looks like.  I just don't see it happening in the East Village.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

I'm curious to see what Top Golf's riverfront plan looks like.  I just don't see it happening in the East Village.

[SXSW]

^ I'd rather see this on the river.  I've always envisioned the west bank concrete plant redeveloped as a riverfront sports park so this could fit in well with that.  Similar to what OKC has done with their riverfront south of downtown with the boathouses and zip line.

I wonder which site is the frontrunner?

[Conan71]

^ I'd rather see this on the river.  I've always envisioned the west bank concrete plant redeveloped as a riverfront sports park so this could fit in well with that.  Similar to what OKC has done with their riverfront south of downtown with the boathouses and zip line.

I wonder which site is the frontrunner?

Based on the $50 million the owners of that property would have gotten in the '07 River Tax package I'd think the land cost would be a deal breaker for something like this, but again, I have no clue about Topgolf's business model.

[SXSW]

Based on the $50 million the owners of that property would have gotten in the '07 River Tax package I'd think the land cost would be a deal breaker for something like this, but again, I have no clue about Topgolf's business model.

That is "Test Fit Plan #4".  The Nordam site was "Test Fit Plan #2".  I wonder what #1 and #3 are?   

[Conan71]

That is "Test Fit Plan #4".  The Nordam site was "Test Fit Plan #2".  I wonder what #1 and #3 are?   

They probably trashed the one on Turkey Mountain.