Downtown Development Overview

[Cats Cats Cats]

Between them, Hogan, and the hundreds of residents who will be moving into the apartments, demand for food is going to increase pretty strongly, including dinner crowds.  Hopefully the new residents will make a grocery store viable too.

I'd be interested to see how many people work downtown eat dinner downtown.  We've had downtown restaurants that close at lunch for quite a while now over on Main.

[Bamboo World]

When is Boulder Ave going to be changed to two-way?

I've been wondering myself.

Here's the City's press release for the conversion of three blocks of Main Street two years ago:

https://www.cityoftulsa.org/news/news-stories/2013/main-street8-7-13.aspx

The cost then for three blocks was about $80,000.  Not being a traffic expert, but just using about $30,000 per block, the cost to convert Boulder from 10th to 1st would be about $270,000.  And the amount of time might be about 8 weeks, just extrapolating from the 2013 Main Street numbers.

But I think Boulder will be more complex because of the existing garage access points on the west side of the 600 and 700 blocks, and crossing the 7th/8th one-way pair feeding the east and west legs of the IDL.  I'm guessing that the garage entries on the east side of Boulder (200 block, 400 block, 500 block, and 600 block) won't be a problem in a two-way conversion, because the traffic flow in and out won't really change. 

[TheArtist]

I think one of the biggest things for downtown will be good transit.  A couple of downtown only circulator busses that have 10-15 minute arrival times that ran most days, plus bus rapid transit that connected to the Pearl, Brookside, Cherry Street and the Gathering Place, along with rail to OKC, would be part of a dream scenario.

With good transit Whole Foods, Reasors, and Trader Joes on Brookside would essentially become downtown grocery stores.  Not optimal, but very doable.  Until we do get a grocery store downtown I would love to be able to tell visitors that come into my store and ask where to get.... that all they have to do is hop on the BRT and they can be there in a few minutes, and also do a little shopping and dining there as well. 

[DowntownDan]

So the lot next to the PAC is looking for developers.  My guess is that we'll get a pretty drawing like One Place and end up with something crappy like the Cimarex building.

http://www.newson6.com/story/29612127/downtown-tulsa-parking-lot-looking-for-developers

[DTowner]

The RFP requires that the development contain 296 parking spaces currently on the lot and include additional parking required by the new development.  That really ignores the large surface lots adjacent to and near this spot.  Also, given the short window to respond, how realistic is it that an interesting, creative, and well thought out plan can be put together and submitted?

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWSon6/PDF/1507/PACdevelopment.pdf

[Cats Cats Cats]

The RFP requires that the development contain 296 parking spaces currently on the lot and include additional parking required by the new development.  That really ignores the large surface lots adjacent to and near this spot.  

True, but can they count on that being there in the future?  Hopefully not.  They would have to purchase the lots if they don't already own them.

[DTowner]

True, but can they count on that being there in the future?  Hopefully not.  They would have to purchase the lots if they don't already own them.

Hopefully not, but that's the point - every downtown development should not have to provide its own mximum use parking as if it were a suburban strip mall.

My office looks out over this parking lot and I see that it is never full during the day.  Same with the other lots on 3rd from Boston to Detroit.  The lot next to the PAC is usually only full on the nights of large PAC events - or about 25-30 nights a year.

[AdamsHall]

That would have to be American Residential's next project. They said some time ago that after Hartford Commons got going (which it has) they would then work next on property they own by Oneok with a planned start date of summer 2015.

Appears the start date has arrived as ArcWrecking is out there doing their thing.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think one of the biggest things for downtown will be good transit.  A couple of downtown only circulator busses that have 10-15 minute arrival times that ran most days, plus bus rapid transit that connected to the Pearl, Brookside, Cherry Street and the Gathering Place, along with rail to OKC, would be part of a dream scenario.

With good transit Whole Foods, Reasors, and Trader Joes on Brookside would essentially become downtown grocery stores.  Not optimal, but very doable.  Until we do get a grocery store downtown I would love to be able to tell visitors that come into my store and ask where to get.... that all they have to do is hop on the BRT and they can be there in a few minutes, and also do a little shopping and dining there as well. 

Critical need!!

We have gone downtown more and more over the last 5 - 6 years and enjoy it a lot!  Until this year....more people are having the same thoughts, so traffic and parking has become such a hassle that I bet we haven't been there more than 8 or 10 times this year...way down from previous.


And China is building a high speed rail for ONE event - the winter Olympics!!  For crying out loud, they are essentially building this to go from "New York" to "Coweta"!!  For a few weeks worth of use!!  Why the blue blazes can't we get decent transit for full time use for decades??  The psychosis in this state is mind numbing!!

[Townsend]

Appears the start date has arrived as ArcWrecking is out there doing their thing.

I just looked out there.  Are you talking about something in addition or the buildings that were just removed?

[cannon_fodder]

Traffic and parking a hassle downtown?

I assume you avoid Brookside, Cherry Street, 71st, a Riverside, well... Anywhere with stuff to do. Plus Norman, Stillwater and 11th on game day. Basically, stick to Skiatook and you'll have no problems.

Or... Park 6 blocks away and no issues pretty much anywhere (game day exception in college towns).

[AdamsHall]

I just looked out there.  Are you talking about something in addition or the buildings that were just removed?

No, just that they are finishing up the building removal.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Traffic and parking a hassle downtown?

I assume you avoid Brookside, Cherry Street, 71st, a Riverside, well... Anywhere with stuff to do. Plus Norman, Stillwater and 11th on game day. Basically, stick to Skiatook and you'll have no problems.

Or... Park 6 blocks away and no issues pretty much anywhere (game day exception in college towns).

You seem to kinda make it sound like dealing with hassles are a virtue...??  Badge of Courage thing....

Brookside yes.  Cherry street no.  Downtown - sort of - down to 8 or 10 this year.  Norman/Stillwater - never.

That's the whole point to creating/having a transit system - to facilitate the movement of people in a smooth fashion - make it easier, remove the hassles.  As we have been discussing here for a while.  Make it easier for more people to move around to the places of interest so more will come, creating more business opportunities, entertainment for more people, etc.  Like the people-moving systems in all the science fiction stories - and the Atlanta airport!!

You go right to an interesting phenomenon on this site - there is a huge focus here on all the new stuff that is going on downtown and all the venues you mention - and almost a trivial amount of focus on the movement of all the people who are going to be using that new stuff.  Traffic getting worse is NOT inevitable - except perhaps here in Oklahoma - if one plans for and implements the movement infrastructure to go with everything else - we should be building the infrastructure FASTER than the new restaurants, housing, entertainment venues!  And our City Council takes an even more trivial approach to the idea!  Maybe we could get them to paint some "bike lanes" on the side of the streets...



And Skiatook is getting too busy...gonna have to move to Nelagoney....drove through over the weekend on the way to the Tallgrass Prairie, and it was fairly quiet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T1s7uMtgJs

[cannon_fodder]

You seem to kinda make it sound like dealing with hassles are a virtue...??  Badge of Courage thing....
. . .
You go right to an interesting phenomenon on this site - there is a huge focus here on all the new stuff that is going on downtown and all the venues you mention - and almost a trivial amount of focus on the movement of all the people who are going to be using that new stuff.  Traffic getting worse is NOT inevitable. . .we should be building the infrastructure FASTER than the new restaurants, housing, entertainment venues!  And our City Council takes an even more trivial approach to the idea!  Maybe we could get them to paint some "bike lanes" on the side of the streets...
. . .
And Skiatook is getting too busy...gonna have to move to Nelagoney....drove through over the weekend on the way to the Tallgrass Prairie, and it was fairly quiet.

You raise great points. I was merely trying to point out that the congestion isn't THAT bad. If you are willing to walk a bit, you can get in and out with minimal problems.

But you are absolutely correct, it will inevitably get worse unless better planning is implemented. As it becomes more of a hassle, the self feeding growth will grind to a halt and become self defeating growth --- unless better transit options are available.

Very well put.

[TheArtist]

What will really kill it is if what we mostly get is car traffic and not pedestrian traffic.

Walt Disney was showing a reporter around the just about to be completed Disney World and said something to the effect of... "Just wait till you see this when the main attraction gets here!"  The reporter asked what this attraction was going to be.  Walt replied "The people".  Walt knew what he was talking about.

Sidewalks full of people are the main attraction (and business driver, in many cities the "pedestrian count" is part of the formula for gauging property values)  We don't even do pedestrian counts, nor do we consider pedestrians when putting in infrastructure like transit, parking garages, etc.  right now we focus on cars. But if all we end up with is traffic and no pedestrians, well it will be like the 80s all over again and downtown will not be attractive or competitive or economically viable for things like retail.