Downtown Development Overview

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Riding past OneOK field last night it occurred to me: In the 7 years since the City/TDA took control of land for and around the stadium, I don't think any of the City owned land has been developed for anything other than reconciliation park. Rusty Crane opened. Redevelopment of the old bar across from the stadium is ongoing. The new apartments were built. A lot has gone on in the Brady, but I don't think any of the land that was transfer to the City/TDA as part of the stadium deal has been developed at all.

Is that accurate?

I see the TDA has issued a RFP on the lots between Rusty Crane the the stadium:
http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Block-44-RFP.pdf

I thought one of the Patel hotels was going there.

Edit: yeah it's the Holiday Inn Express, right? http://www.newson6.com/story/28088686/tulsa-developer-booming-downtown-in-need-of-new-hotels

[swake]

I thought one of the Patel hotels was going there.

Edit: yeah it's the Holiday Inn Express, right? http://www.newson6.com/story/28088686/tulsa-developer-booming-downtown-in-need-of-new-hotels

The Holiday Inn Express site is across Archer from this lot, they are still saying that will break ground this year. This is the lot Will Wilkins was going to build "120 Brady Village", a mixed use hotel and office building. I guess that fell through.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

The Holiday Inn Express site is across Archer from this lot, they are still saying that will break ground this year. This is the lot Will Wilkins was going to build "120 Brady Village", a mixed use hotel and office building. I guess that fell through.

That's right. Sorry for the misinformation.

[heironymouspasparagus]

SO because all these more people will go to college they will also get jobs that pay commensurate with the current graduating flock and at the same time make available all these extra seats that would be desired? I've got a bridge to sell you buddy.

Belongs in the politics section. However, you make a good point on another front. An entity like the city/state claiming this is a good investment usually makes me think it is just the opposite. And it usually is.

Certainly not my or anyone's opinion in any way, shape, or form.  It is fact based on observation of the empirical evidence shown by doing exactly that in this country on a limited scale in the US immediately after WWII and beyond for several decades.  The TRUE "rising tide" phenomena.  It's not conjecture as so much of the Murdochian Fantasy World would have us believe - it is proven fact.  And that doesn't even begin to cite the examples from other countries around the world - our own example is more than adequate.  It is literally what gave us the standard of living we have in this country today.   Those with intellect can now only imagine what is possible if we went back to that approach.  Instead, we are in a headlong rush in the opposite direction - as proven by Oklahoma spending trends on education in the Failin' era.

As for being in politics - yeah, it would fit there, but it goes directly to the discussion here about the relative benefits of one form of "socialist entitlement" versus another.  "Socialist entitlement" for a wider range of people in the form of tuition assistance.  Versus socialist corporate welfare for a small number of people in the form of TIF's - the Santa Fe example given as a wonderful way to spend money - by spending $3.60 to get $5.00.

Which situation would YOU personally rather participate in?  If you give me $3.50, I will give you back $5.00.

OR - if you give me $1.00, I will give you back $7.50??

And we all know what the honest answer is....

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

In my opinion, Frankfort ought to be re-opened to vehicular traffic, especially if the project is using TIF and if 1st and 2nd remain as one-way streets. 

In one of the project renderings, I counted about thirty acorn lights.  Thirty -- and that's just along Elgin and Second.  Thirty more acorn lights might be planned along Greenwood and First, too, as far as I know.  The streets surrounding the development ought to have zero acorn lights, especially since its funding is relying on TIF.

Why would you want Frankfort reopened? There are plenty of streets around. There will be walkable plazas within Santa Fe square and keeping it closed allows for more room to develop. I'd rather there be development than a street.

What is wrong with acorn lights? I think they beautify an area and light it up nicely. The atmosphere of TU's campus was completely transformed after they added nice acorn lights all around. It was like the finishing touch on all the upgrades.

[Bamboo World]

What is wrong with acorn lights?

They direct light toward the sky, where it's not needed.  Horizontal cutoff fixtures which direct light downward are more efficient and provide better safety for pedestrians.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

They direct light toward the sky, where it's not needed.  Horizontal cutoff fixtures which direct light downward are more efficient and provide better safety for pedestrians.

What about ones with a cap on them?

[Bamboo World]

What about ones with a cap on them?

Marginally better, but still very wasteful of light and energy.  With or without caps, the City shouldn't install any more of them, anywhere.  Look for patric's explanations about photometrics elsewhere on this forum.

The light fixtures I've seen in the Santa Fe Square renderings are acorns without caps, btw.

[Townsend]

They direct light toward the sky, where it's not needed.  Horizontal cutoff fixtures which direct light downward are more efficient and provide better safety for pedestrians.

[Conan71]

But we're Tulsans and Tulsans love our glare!

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Marginally better, but still very wasteful of light and energy.  With or without caps, the City shouldn't install any more of them, anywhere.  Look for patric's explanations about photometrics elsewhere on this forum.

The light fixtures I've seen in the Santa Fe Square renderings are acorns without caps, btw.

Some places still use gas lights for the effect which is incredibly inefficient. Acorn lights are similar to that. They create a certain atmosphere which is worth the extra cost in some areas if it can make the place more of an experience. Santa Fe will be a nice shopping/urban area and nicer lighting is similar to paying more to decorate or having fancier-designed architecture. Acorn lights look far better than the car lot lights Townsend posted. I bet they'll be a fraction of the cost of what it will cost to make the outside of the buildings look quaint.

If we shouldn't have acorn lights there, maybe because of the TIF, they should change the building designs to match the Cimarex building across from the BOK Center. And, to save additional costs and increase potential tax revenue, they should eliminate the courtyards so they can add more space to rent out.  After all, the original plans for that lot across from BOK looked very reminiscent of Santa Fe Square.   

Seriously though, TU before and after acorn lights was completely different. It turned from just a campus into more of an intriguing little village. I started going there just to see it and experience the atmosphere whereas even when I was a student and for a while after, I had no interest in walking or bicycling around campus, especially at night (I would bike around Renaissance/Florence Park all the time because I like seeing those neighborhoods). The campus was a more sterile boring atmosphere before the fancy lights.

[carltonplace]

There are lots of old timey looking lights that are aesthetic and at the same time not wasteful.


Not a great example, but look at the lights installed on the new I244 bridge over the river...they put the light on the roadway where instead of just blasting it out into space.

[Townsend]

If we shouldn't have acorn lights there, maybe because of the TIF, they should change the building designs to match the Cimarex building across from the BOK Center. And, to save additional costs and increase potential tax revenue, they should eliminate the courtyards so they can add more space to rent out.  After all, the original plans for that lot across from BOK looked very reminiscent of Santa Fe Square.   

Ugh...that's a bummer to think about.  Now I have all the faith in the world that this new development will look like the Cimarex building.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

After all, the original plans for that lot across from BOK looked very reminiscent of Santa Fe Square. 

Ugh...that's a bummer to think about.  Now I have all the faith in the world that this new development will look like the Cimarex building.

Way to ruin my day

[Hoss]

There are lots of old timey looking lights that are aesthetic and at the same time not wasteful.


Not a great example, but look at the lights installed on the new I244 bridge over the river...they put the light on the roadway where instead of just blasting it out into space.

I also think the ones mounted in the center of the new stretch of recently-rehabbed I-244 through town is done the same.  LED lights that appear to my untrained eye to direct light to the roadway and it appears the fixtures cut off upward light.  Am I correct there?