Downtown Development Overview

[DTowner]

In the past I often noticed Scott Cherry tended to give more suburban/cookie-cutter/chain looking places higher reviews on atmosphere while he gives lower ratings to more interesting/amazing places like the Vault, Prairie Brewpub, Tallgrass etc. Those places hold water with just about any trendy place I've been too in NYC/Brooklyn/SF/LA. I think those atmosphere ratings have gotten better recently though.

I think he grades on a sliding scale.  A suburban joint is measured against other or some sort of ideal suburban joint, etc. 

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I think he grades on a sliding scale.  A suburban joint is measured against other or some sort of ideal suburban joint, etc. 

That might make sense, but he has given 4/5 star ratings to some poorly-done places in south Tulsa which felt about as nice and interesting as a subway or arbys (i.e. not nice or interesting, but new), but emptier and nowhere near the level of Los Cabos or even Red Robin. When someone opens a restaurant on a tight budget, spending as little as possible, you can usually tell in the interior. That is fine if the food is great to make up for it. Several places like that got high atmosphere ratings and I can't think of any reason outside of being in a newer strip mall in south Tulsa.

[SXSW]

I could care less what Scott Cherry thinks.  If I'm interested in reading a review I use Yelp.  I wish we could get an Eater blog in Tulsa but I don't think our scene is big/trendy enough.

[swake]

I could care less what Scott Cherry thinks.  If I'm interested in reading a review I use Yelp.  I wish we could get an Eater blog in Tulsa but I don't think our scene is big/trendy enough.

http://tulsafood.com/

[Cats Cats Cats]

http://tulsafood.com/

I'm not exactly sure how impartial they are. There is money for advertising and publicity that goes around.

[BKDotCom]

If I'm interested in reading a review I use Yelp.  I wish we could get an Eater blog in Tulsa but I don't think our scene is big/trendy enough.

Yelp reviews are less authentic than reality TV.

[TheArtist]

Yelp reviews are less authentic than reality TV.

Yes, I despise Yelp.  Have seen bad reviews of places I know of, that had nothing to do with the place. "People going to a restaurant gave it a bad review because they saw a homeless person down the street" Should have given the local mental health services a bad review, not the restaurant.  Then I have gotten good reviews "not allowed" because they seemed false or "too good or too many good reviews so something must be up".  

So they will not allow some good reviews that were true and made by honest people, but seem to have no problem leaving bad reviews that are absurd and have nothing to do with the business in question.

Oh, I did get a bad review a while back.  Apparently the person overheard a customer say something they disliked so gave my store a bad review.  Guess I need to install microphones all over the store and hire someone to police what people say so if a customer says something upsetting or disagreeable we can rush over there and throw them out and apologize profusely to everyone who was eavesdropping on the conversation.  So not only do I have to watch everyone in my store, I now have to listen to everything everyone says as well!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Yes, I despise Yelp.  Have seen bad reviews of places I know of, that had nothing to do with the place. "People going to a restaurant gave it a bad review because they saw a homeless person down the street" Should have given the local mental health services a bad review, not the restaurant.  Then I have gotten good reviews "not allowed" because they seemed false or "too good or too many good reviews so something must be up".  

So they will not allow some good reviews that were true and made by honest people, but seem to have no problem leaving bad reviews that are absurd and have nothing to do with the business in question.

Oh, I did get a bad review a while back.  Apparently the person overheard a customer say something they disliked so gave my store a bad review.  Guess I need to install microphones all over the store and hire someone to police what people say so if a customer says something upsetting or disagreeable we can rush over there and throw them out and apologize profusely to everyone who was eavesdropping on the conversation.  So not only do I have to watch everyone in my store, I now have to listen to everything everyone says as well!

If ya got a name and address, I would go talk to them for ya...!  That's ridiculous!! 

[sgrizzle]

Yes, I despise Yelp.  Have seen bad reviews of places I know of, that had nothing to do with the place. "People going to a restaurant gave it a bad review because they saw a homeless person down the street" Should have given the local mental health services a bad review, not the restaurant.  Then I have gotten good reviews "not allowed" because they seemed false or "too good or too many good reviews so something must be up".  

So they will not allow some good reviews that were true and made by honest people, but seem to have no problem leaving bad reviews that are absurd and have nothing to do with the business in question.

Oh, I did get a bad review a while back.  Apparently the person overheard a customer say something they disliked so gave my store a bad review.  Guess I need to install microphones all over the store and hire someone to police what people say so if a customer says something upsetting or disagreeable we can rush over there and throw them out and apologize profusely to everyone who was eavesdropping on the conversation.  So not only do I have to watch everyone in my store, I now have to listen to everything everyone says as well!

You also got a bad review for lack of eye contact.

On the internet, survival is consider winning.

[erfalf]

So I was finally in town in the evening on Saturday (ballgame). We were up and down Main & Brady around 7 (before the game) and 9:30 (after the game) and it was pleasantly busy at both times. Coming back I was surprised to see so many places open and busy at nearly 10:00, including Antoinette's which I had forgotten stayed open that late. The places that really caught my eye were Caz's & Valkyrie. Spinster Records (which I believe just opened), Ida Red, Chimera, The Tavern, Antoinette's & Prairie all were still hopping at that time. 10 years ago, there was not much going on at all in that area. Really awesome to see this. For the first time that I recall it actually felt like a big city (much bigger than Tulsa that is).

I still remember heading to Tulsa in about 2005 looking for an apartment and we drove by The Tribune Lofts @ Boston & Archer. There was NOTHING around it. We passed on it. Move forward a decade and this area has completely changed. Unbelievable progress. I know it seems like it takes an eternity, but really a decade to see that much progress in a neighborhood is pretty quick. I really have to think that with some of the vacant lots/parking lots still sitting down there that an influx of housing has got to be on the horizon.

Does OSU own all the property (besides the Salvation Army) bounded by Boulder/Jasper/MLK/Easton? That stuff in any other city would be primed for residential, and big. Can't believe it is just sitting there.

[dsjeffries]

Does OSU own all the property (besides the Salvation Army) bounded by Boulder/Jasper/MLK/Easton? That stuff in any other city would be primed for residential, and big. Can't believe it is just sitting there.

I happen to have a map of that very thing. UCAT owns around 140 acres, and OSU has around 26 acres. TDA owns several lots, the City owns a bunch of land, TPS obviously has two schools, and there's a smattering of bank-owned lots (Arvest owns a good chunk of the west side of MLK), and churches have gobbled up a bunch of houses. Don't forget that even 20 years ago, houses still stood on this land. UCAT et al have systematically and intentionally demolished the neighborhood.

Interactive Google map here

[Dspike]

The UCAT property is still a prime location for a 4-year residential university. It could add 10,000 (or 20,000) students living on campus and next to downtown. It would provide demand for pizza joints, chinese food, bars, restaurants, a grocery store and other amenities. It would significantly impact sales tax revenue for the city. And almost no city in the country has this type of contiguous vacant property in its core that could be the site of a greenfield university.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Yes, I despise Yelp.  Have seen bad reviews of places I know of, that had nothing to do with the place. "People going to a restaurant gave it a bad review because they saw a homeless person down the street" Should have given the local mental health services a bad review, not the restaurant.  Then I have gotten good reviews "not allowed" because they seemed false or "too good or too many good reviews so something must be up".  

So they will not allow some good reviews that were true and made by honest people, but seem to have no problem leaving bad reviews that are absurd and have nothing to do with the business in question.

Oh, I did get a bad review a while back.  Apparently the person overheard a customer say something they disliked so gave my store a bad review.  Guess I need to install microphones all over the store and hire someone to police what people say so if a customer says something upsetting or disagreeable we can rush over there and throw them out and apologize profusely to everyone who was eavesdropping on the conversation.  So not only do I have to watch everyone in my store, I now have to listen to everything everyone says as well!

Just looked at Yelp to see the reviews for the store and I didn't see any bad ones at all...??   Even the ones "not recommended" were good - they just didn't fill in the "X out of 5" stars section.  Where was the bad review??

[SXSW]

The UCAT property is still a prime location for a 4-year residential university. It could add 10,000 (or 20,000) students living on campus and next to downtown. It would provide demand for pizza joints, chinese food, bars, restaurants, a grocery store and other amenities. It would significantly impact sales tax revenue for the city. And almost no city in the country has this type of contiguous vacant property in its core that could be the site of a greenfield university.

Absolutely.  Our city leaders have been too occupied with the river to care about redeveloping it though.  With the growth of Brady my hope is that it won't stay that way much longer. 

Great map dsjeffries.  Aren't the Sunset Plaza apartments not owned by the Tulsa Housing Authority like the properties to the north?  I always thought they were. 

[erfalf]

I honestly hope AGAINST a university in that location because I am certain it will be developed in the mold of OSU's campus to the east and then Brady Heights will be COMPLETELY sealed off from downtown.

Streets will be removed, green space will be everywhere. It will be a disaster.