Downtown Development Overview

[ELG4America]

From the article:  "With those elevated first-floor ceilings, if the day ever comes where we have automated cars, that could be converted into retail very easily."

So it is contemplated, but not until everyone is using automated cars. In reality demand could be there, but not until more people live downtown and would use regular type stores within walking distance. Someone said it before, Tulsa will never be downtown Manhattan or Philadelphia, where people are walking everywhere. Most cities west of the East Coast had their fastest development after the automobile was invented. Tulsa downtown had a particularly rough patch and as it currently stands, most people walking downtown are coming in from other parts of town and spending a few hours eating, shopping, visiting, etc. Without permanent residents there will not be bodegas for groceries or other significant retail because most people have that near their homes. We need to keep expanding living options downtown, at all income levels, and make downtown a real 24-7 neighborhood. Until people are living downtown in large numbers it will remain to be mostly bars and restaurants. When we hit the point that downtown can sustain a grocery store for downtown residents, it will then hopefully be a tipping point.

My "big picture" idea is for downtown businesses to band together and offer Uber or Lyft codes up to $10 for one way rides. That would encourage anyone living within a $10 zone of downtown to use that service to get downtown knowing they'll get a free ride home. I use Uber or Lyft because its $5 to get downtown, but if you could extend that into the far reaches of midtown and in some situations even into South Tulsa, maybe more people would use these services instead of driving and parking. It's a start at least to try and convince car-a-holics to consider something other than drive-and-park. Not to mention it's likely effect on reducing DUIs and the city or state could pitch in to this plan if they truly care about reducing drunk driving. The one-way ride could also be used by people who drove and parked and unintentionally had a few too many.

I love this idea. One of the things I've been thinking about recently is rethinking "mass transit" for Tulsa individually. Maybe we've been stuck thinking about building a $20 Billion subway because that is the solution that worked for the great cities we've visited. But maybe electric scooters, ride sharing, buses and trolleys are a better way for Tulsa. Imagine the number of rides that could have been subsidized if the last 2 big downtown parking garages hadn't been built or if downtown workers weren't paying American Parking.

[DowntownDan]

I love this idea. One of the things I've been thinking about recently is rethinking "mass transit" for Tulsa individually. Maybe we've been stuck thinking about building a $20 Billion subway because that is the solution that worked for the great cities we've visited. But maybe electric scooters, ride sharing, buses and trolleys are a better way for Tulsa. Imagine the number of rides that could have been subsidized if the last 2 big downtown parking garages hadn't been built or if downtown workers weren't paying American Parking.

^ I know Lyft has definitely changed the way I get downtown to go to events and restaurants.  I rarely ever drive and park downtown for those things anymore, and others in my age group (30's) have a similar mindset especially those living in Midtown.  The problem is without better mass transit people will still drive to their jobs downtown.  I know if I'm just going downtown for an errand or for a meeting, Coffee, etc I'll drive and park at a meter, usually no more than a block or two from where I'm going.  The ParkMobile app is really easy to use.

I agree completely. I live five minutes from my building downtown and taking a bus would take about an hour. Uber/Lyft every day is not affordable. Plus my company pays for my parking garage pass. There will always be a need for parking garages downtown, but we need to be smart about it if we are really trying to build a walkable downtown neighborhood (as I said before it's not really feasible until a critical mass of people actually live downtown).

Another "big picture" idea I have is to focus transit on core midtown to encourage density in and around downtown. To start, I would define "core midtown" as I-244 to the north, Harvard to the east, 31st to the south, and Riverside on the east. The bus rapid transit on 11th and Peoria is a great start. But focus more circular busses and do everything possible to get strategically placed rail and streetcars to circular this area. More people can move into this area creating real density with a variety of housing options (apartments, duplexes, and single family homes). But make it to where using some form of transit to work is feasible. I live right by Cherry Street and transit simply isn't feasible for me (I am hoping to someday use a bike more but it's a long term goal I'm still working towards).

Another issue that I think gets overlooked, and is unfortunately not feasible in the current environment, is to make every neighborhood school desirable. A ton of midtown folks are sending their kids to magnet schools to the south, and using transit is a nuisance when you need to pick up a kid on the other end of town. If the closest school was just as desirable (or close) to others the distance needed would be more manageable for use of transit. Maybe transit to and from work and use your car for the short trip to school. The downtown Montessori school is another good idea that could help.

[Laramie]

American Cultural Center update from the Oklahoma Gazette.


Construction is set to resume on the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum later this year.

The American Indian Cultural Center and Museum is accepting bids through Jan. 7 to complete the facility, 659 American Indian Blvd., near the Boathouse District. . .

. . .The total construction budget is $37 million, Wilson said. The interiors of the building have not been constructed and some of the exteriors remain unfinished, so ADG is looking for companies that can fully complete the facility.

"The heart of this and the main attraction for people coming to visit is that they'll get to experience living, breathing native culture," museum director Jim Pepper Henry said. "We're going to have a very robust program schedule here at the cultural center where we'll have members from the different tribes sharing their heritage with visitors through dance, through song, through performances, through art demonstrations, through storytelling."

Oklahoma Gazette:  https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/center-staged/Content?oid=5406462

[RecycleMichael]

Why are you compelled to keep posting about OKC on a Tulsa forum?

Please stop.

[brettakins]

American Cultural Center update from the Oklahoma Gazette.


Construction is set to resume on the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum later this year.

Oklahoma Gazette:  https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/center-staged/Content?oid=5406462

Please stop with the OKC crap

There's already a thread dedicated to OKC stuff. There is no need to repost those in here.

[Weatherdemon]

Looks like they've got workers and equipment in the lot directly S of OneOK Field this week.

[shavethewhales]

Looks like they've got workers and equipment in the lot directly S of OneOK Field this week.

That is excellent news. We've been waiting for what, two years now for that to start construction? So much transformation in that little area. I'm excited to see it all finally fill in and finish out.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

That is excellent news. We've been waiting for what, two years now for that to start construction? So much transformation in that little area. I'm excited to see it all finally fill in and finish out.

With that and the Ross Group building, that will completely transform that area and make a pretty solid urban neighborhood from the core of Greenwood and Archer all the way to around Welltown Brewery! Amazing turnaround compared to 2007, when the area was very desolate ghost town with a few non-blighted spots.

I use 2007 partially because that's as far back as Google street view goes and is a great stark comparison whereas the next closest view, 2011, includes the ballpark and a lot of other upgrades:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/E+Archer+St+%26+N+Greenwood+Ave,+Tulsa,+OK+74120/@36.1589779,-95.9883951,3a,75y,332.22h,103.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNKp1jnsuuazDZpRkNEUW-g!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!4m5!3m4!1s0x87b6eb81aa790673:0xcbf31e6eb4a81d50!8m2!3d36.1597994!4d-95.9860581

https://www.google.com/maps/place/E+Archer+St+%26+N+Greenwood+Ave,+Tulsa,+OK+74120/@36.157661,-95.9923235,3a,75y,22.45h,83.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG3xKevtIXGpZ2nLrkvV8-A!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!4m5!3m4!1s0x87b6eb81aa790673:0xcbf31e6eb4a81d50!8m2!3d36.1597994!4d-95.9860581

[ELG4America]

Don't forget the Bob Dylan Center on the NW corner of Archer and Cinncinati/MLK! If we could get something in the BOK lot on the NE corner of Archer and Cinncinati/MLK that would make a solid line of buildings, mostly multi-story multi-use, from Greenwood to Main along Archer. 6 Blocks!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Please stop with the OKC crap

There's already a thread dedicated to OKC stuff. There is no need to repost those in here.

We took a little afternoon drive in the country to OKC yesterday and to do some grocery shopping at Winco.  Saved about enough to pay for the gas!  But the nice dinner at Saltgrass kinda blew that all outa the water...

[DowntownDan]

Yay, more parking! Seriously though, parking needs are necessary in this market (no amount of smart development literature will change enough minds), and this location is as good as any. Ground floor activation along Eligin with some businesses ready to move in. Sounds like it'll go up quick too. The area surrounding OneOK will be completely transformed by the end of the year. About time.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/million-public-parking-garage-to-be-erected-on-elgin-avenue/article_6b3a849e-0bf6-5058-b76d-0ffece0ac459.html

[DTowner]

Yay, more parking! Seriously though, parking needs are necessary in this market (no amount of smart development literature will change enough minds), and this location is as good as any. Ground floor activation along Eligin with some businesses ready to move in. Sounds like it'll go up quick too. The area surrounding OneOK will be completely transformed by the end of the year. About time.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/million-public-parking-garage-to-be-erected-on-elgin-avenue/article_6b3a849e-0bf6-5058-b76d-0ffece0ac459.html

As buildings replace surface lots in this area, a parking garage is needed.  Overall, this seems like a good location and design.

As an aside, why doesn't anyone build below ground parking in downtown anymore?  Other than the Williams Green and the Oneok building garages, which both go several stories below ground, none have been built in downtown.  Is it cost, engineering, geological, or something else?

[DTowner]

As buildings replace surface lots in this area, a parking garage is needed.  Overall, this seems like a good location and design.

As an aside, why doesn't anyone build below ground parking in downtown anymore?  Other than the Williams Green and the Oneok building garages, which both go several stories below ground, none have been built in downtown.  Is it cost, engineering, geological, or something else?

Now that I think about it, I guess the Price family garage at 4th & Main has a below ground level.  But then, it is being build where there was an existing hole in the ground, so I'm not sure that fully counts.

[BKDotCom]

As an aside, why doesn't anyone build below ground parking in downtown anymore? ...  Is it cost, engineering, geological, or something else?

Cost.  Parking garages are expensive...  now you want to bury it..     I think it adds about 30% to the cost.

[DTowner]

Cost.  Parking garages are expensive...  now you want to bury it..     I think it adds about 30% to the cost.

Yes, I'm very good at spending other peoples' money.