Human Garbage and the Waco Massacre

[AquaMan]

That is BA. Back in the 80's I was a sales rep there based in Tulsa but working that territory. I was stopped for having an expired sticker. Problem was I had just put a new sticker on the week before. I was wearing coat and tie as well. They are quite provincial there. I was an outsider to them. Not so atypical for a bedroom community.

[Hoss]

Not much.  I'm not on the side of "law enforcement" on that deal...like we knew at the beginning, the people there were not 'clubbers'.  Just trying to provide a little balance to VN's hard slant in one direction - there are 1%'ers out there that are hard core. Wasn't the case in Wacko, Texass.

The one big point that VN tries to make is that there is a huge problem with "law enforcement" in this country and something needs to be done to fix it.  At the same time, that doesn't mean criminals are any better than the bad cops.


Speaking of cops...I was doing some farm work late Friday a couple weeks ago, and drove through downtown BA as a 'short cut' to get to the expressway.  Got stopped by the local gendarmes.  They were polite enough I guess, but the whole premise was a bogus crock of carp - they stopped me for not having a license light.  I did have one burned out, but one was fine and way more than bright enough to illuminate the tag - since I have a couple other vehicles that have single bulb versions using the same bulb, I have a valid automotive comparison.  They were 'fishing'.  Since they were younger guys, I can guarantee they have never stopped anyone before with as clean a record as I have, so they couldn't find anything to trump up - still took them over 10 minutes of trying, while I just had to sit and wait.  There is a reason people in the 60's gave them a slang term name related to animals with cloven hooves.

Yep.  BA cops haven't changed in nearly 30 years.  They're mostly a-holes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGkXlZUlLJc

[heironymouspasparagus]

Last ticket I got was in 1984 in BA...they had an a**hole cop there who was all gung ho - gonna be the next Dirty Harry, I guess.  I was driving down 81st at 129th - had just left a stop sign and  only driven about 900 ft when pulled over.  This was before there was any infrastructure there except for Country Lane Estates.  Anyway, he had "radared" me at 68 mph.  The car - an old beater as always - could not get to 45 mph in that distance even when floored.  I got the speedometer tested, did independent tests with witnesses on acceleration.

Talked to the City DA and asked him for his help.  He was a really good guy and gave me good information to defend myself.  I have always thought he knew what the problem was and was trying to help people who were victims of this clown cop.  Even though I had to go to (night) court, the ticket was thrown out, as it should have been - actually, I was found not guilty.   This was Bob Perugino, who was a 'visiting' DA at the time.  Later became a Judge in Tulsa County courts.  Has since retired, I think.

From friends/family that live there, it seems like BA cops have improved over the years, but still have a trip to travel....


On the other side, a friend had a poisonous snake event in their house and the officer that responded was very professional and did an excellent job correcting the problem.  Story I heard was hilarious - he was about as 'nervous' about the snake as the homeowner.  I think I would be too.

[Vashta Nerada]

I'm not on the side of "law enforcement" on that deal...like we knew at the beginning, the people there were not 'clubbers'.  Just trying to provide a little balance to VN's hard slant in one direction - there are 1%'ers out there that are hard core. Wasn't the case in Wacko, Texass.

The one big point that VN tries to make is that there is a huge problem with "law enforcement" in this country and something needs to be done to fix it.  At the same time, that doesn't mean criminals are any better than the bad cops.

Texas Attorney General Lance Kutnick ruled that McLennan County District Attorney Abelino "Abel" Reyna violated the Texas Public Information Act in relation to the alleged extortion of bond reductions for Waco Massacre defendants.

"Detainees...were told that in exchange for bond reductions, they must sign a document stating the Waco police 'had the right to arrest the inmate and that he/she will not file a lawsuit.'"

"They know these people aren't dangerous or they wouldn't be offering the bond reductions and they know the police and the D.A.'s office have violated the law and now they are trying to hold people hostage until they agree to waive their rights. It's unconscionable."

"Any time a prosecutor's office does not want people talking about something, one should raise a red flag. They may say it is to protect the investigation, but they are protecting themselves from whatever it is that they don't want us to see or know about."
In addition to the most pressing question––how many of the bikers were killed by government-issued lead––it would be useful to know what role, if any, local authorities or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, a bureaucracy with a stunning recent history of misconduct, played in provoking the fight.

If it turns out that some of the victims in Waco died from police bullets, authorities will have shot people dead, arrested all the witnesses, and prohibited them from speaking out under penalty of contempt. It's long past time for state overseers to step in.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/in-the-waco-shootout-police-bullets-hit-bikers/406534/




http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20151016-sounding-off-readers-discuss-waco-biker-investigation.ece

[heironymouspasparagus]

Texas Attorney General Lance Kutnick ruled that McLennan County District Attorney Abelino "Abel" Reyna violated the Texas Public Information Act in relation to the alleged extortion of bond reductions for Waco Massacre defendants.

"Detainees...were told that in exchange for bond reductions, they must sign a document stating the Waco police 'had the right to arrest the inmate and that he/she will not file a lawsuit.'"

"They know these people aren't dangerous or they wouldn't be offering the bond reductions and they know the police and the D.A.'s office have violated the law and now they are trying to hold people hostage until they agree to waive their rights. It's unconscionable."

"Any time a prosecutor's office does not want people talking about something, one should raise a red flag. They may say it is to protect the investigation, but they are protecting themselves from whatever it is that they don't want us to see or know about."
In addition to the most pressing question––how many of the bikers were killed by government-issued lead––it would be useful to know what role, if any, local authorities or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, a bureaucracy with a stunning recent history of misconduct, played in provoking the fight.

If it turns out that some of the victims in Waco died from police bullets, authorities will have shot people dead, arrested all the witnesses, and prohibited them from speaking out under penalty of contempt. It's long past time for state overseers to step in.

True.

The should be Federal investigations about civil rights violations...but it's Texass,...oop, sorry, Baja Oklahoma, so not likely much will happen.  

[patric]

Oh look at all the ex-Marines in those pictures, Im sure they would have no idea what fully automatic weapons fire sounds like 

The should be Federal investigations about civil rights violations...but it's Texass,...oop, sorry, Baja Oklahoma, so not likely much will happen. 

If the Waco Police Chief was telling the truth about HIS men only firing 12 shots, then someone else is going to have to be held accountable for the hundreds that peppered a crowded restaurant.  That leaves the Texas Rangers, the DPS, other local departments and "task forces" invited early to the turkey shoot, and the ATF.

The later casts doubt on an impartial investigation by the Feds, but a miscarriage on this scale is every bit as deserving of a hearing as Bengazi.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The later casts doubt on an impartial investigation by the Feds, but a miscarriage on this scale is every bit as deserving of a hearing as Bengazi.

Much more so....

[patric]

Coming up on six months now, and they have yet to charge anyone with murder.
All the energy and resources in the investigation seem to be geared towards keeping witnesses quiet, and gaming the 24/7 news cycle.

There was a release of some cherry-picked video to CNN last week (in defiance of the gag order) but the people controlling the narrative insist they didnt do it.
Looking at what leaked gives a big clue as to who might have leaked it, though:

You got to see the video of the ONE biker firing a shot; same thing the AP reported when they got to see the complete uncensored video from the Twin Peaks management.
You didnt get to see any of the ballistics reports that would say who killed who, nor any of the pole-camera video from the cameras the DPS set up beforehand.
You got to see just two biker clubs, surrendering to law-and-order. 
You didnt get to see all the Veterans clubs and the LE/FF MC (Law Enforcement/Fire Fighter Motorcycle Clubs) and family groups that were arrested. 

http://usat.ly/1NgYJyo

[cannon_fodder]

I have to agree with that.  There has apparently been far more effort in keeping witnesses quiet and stifling investigations into police activity that there has been action on criminal investigation. They have bullets in bodies. They have bullets in walls They have firearms and shell casings. They have surveillance videos and dozens of police as witnesses. Yet they can't figure this thing out??

Also - the deal they required people to sign to get our of jail was deemed hogwash. You can't require people to keep quiet and say you did everything right as a condition for release from unlawful detention...

Someone is clearly a murderer, or several someones. OR it was self defense. 6 months?

[patric]

Also - the deal they required people to sign to get our of jail was deemed hogwash. You can't require people to keep quiet and say you did everything right as a condition for release from unlawful detention...

"What do the papers say?"

     "They are merely a statement saying you have not been mistreated while you have been here"

"I cannot sign zee papers"

     "Unt why can not you sign zee paperz?

"Because you have broken both of my hands" 

[Vashta Nerada]

Isn't it hard to identify suppressed high-powered gunfire? Not for the biker community, many of whom are ex-military and have been around firearms a lot, Lori said. Speaking of that day in Waco, she said, "The Leatherneck Club was there. Different mom and pop groups. The Foreign Legion riders group. Many of them were veterans. You learn to differentiate."
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/06/more-on-bear-kirschner-the-biker-who-was-gunned-down-in-waco.html/



Right after the May 17 motorcycle-gang shootout in Waco, this newspaper's inclination was to believe law enforcers' account that the nine deaths and 22 injuries were the result of hardened criminal thugs waging a deadly turf battle. But the longer this bizarre case plays out, the more credible the bikers look, and the more it appears that McLennan County officials have something to hide.
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20151026-editorial-in-waco-case-biker-gangs-earn-more-trust-than-prosecutors.ece


Politicians and police in Waco appear to have arranged, encouraged and anticipated a confrontation between two antagonistic motorcycle clubs at a restaurant last May 17. Their intention was to catch red handed some members of those clubs committing various crimes of violence. It is a matter of irrefutable fact that violence did result from this prearranged affray. Autopsy reports and statements by witnesses imply that police using military weapons fatally wounded at least six people. Local police and politicians have deliberately lied about and obfuscated the basic facts of this tragic encounter since it occurred and as a result the people of this nation have been lied to and misinformed.
http://www.agingrebel.com/13676

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/candy-chand/waco-biker-injustice_b_8644676.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

I have to agree with that.  There has apparently been far more effort in keeping witnesses quiet and stifling investigations into police activity that there has been action on criminal investigation. They have bullets in bodies. They have bullets in walls They have firearms and shell casings. They have surveillance videos and dozens of police as witnesses. Yet they can't figure this thing out??

They are "magic bullets"....they just disappear into thin air once they are fired....

[patric]

WACO, Texas (CNN) — Texas law enforcement officials are investigating what they say are new threats against officers from biker gangs in the wake of a recent shootout in Waco.




Oh no, yet another "Outlaw Biker Gangs Are Coming To Town To Kill All Police" bulletin; 
this time from a department that accidentally killed the hostage in a hostage standoff (which by some odd coincidence had been suing that very same department for brutality during a politically motivated (and failed) "drug raid" earlier):

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/2015/12/08/police-wary-retaliation-neenah-shooting/76988786/

[Vashta Nerada]

Despite earlier denials by the Waco Police Department, ballistics reports revealed that four of the bikers killed in the Twin Peaks shooting were shot by the same caliber of rifle bullet used by Waco police on the day of the shooting.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/12/12/four-twin-peaks-bikers-shot-bullet-type-used-waco-police/

Ballistics reports reveal four of the bikers were killed by shots from .223 caliber rifles, according to an AP report published on KWTX in Waco. This is the type of rifle reportedly used by police on the day of the shooting involving the bikers who gathered at a planned political meeting at the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco.
Two of the slain Twin Peaks Bikers bikers only had wounds from a .223 caliber weapon. Two other bikers had the .223 wounds along with wounds from other guns. A total of 20 bikers were wounded during the shooting.

In May, Breitbart Texas reported that Waco police spokesman Sergeant Patrick Swanton chastised CNN for reporting a source that claimed four of the victims had been shot by police. "There was a media outlet that was reporting that law enforcement killed four of the individuals at this scene Sunday afternoon," Swanton said during the May press conference." I will tell you, whoever told you that, that person belongs on "CSI" because the autopsies have not been completed and it is impossible at this point to determine that fact. I will tell you, is it possible? Yes. Is it a fact? No."

"The information that is out there right now — if you got lucky and guessed that number, congratulations," Swanton continued. "If you didn't, shame on you for putting that information out there that may have been incorrect."

The Washington Post identified CNN as the outlet stating, "CNN maybe? The 24-7 news outlet cited a 'law enforcement source' as saying that 'preliminary information indicates that four of the bikers killed were killed by police gunfire.'"

Now the autopsy reports are out and it certainly appears the police sergeant, now running for sheriff against incumbent Sheriff Parnell McNamara, might owe CNN an apology.



Since the shootout, bikers from both gangs have spoken out, claiming that the unusually heavy presence of law enforcement made the situation worse. In October, footage from inside the Twin Peaks restaurant aired by CNN seemed to confirm Penn's reporting: the majority of the bikers weren't actively engaged in the gunfight; most were simply looking for cover.
http://www.gq.com/story/report-four-bikers-shot-in-the-texas-biker-gang-shoot-out-were-killed-by-a-gun-typically-used-by-police

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXMUO0F_C1s

[patric]

There has apparently been far more effort in keeping witnesses quiet and stifling investigations into police activity that there has been action on criminal investigation. They have bullets in bodies. They have bullets in walls They have firearms and shell casings. They have surveillance videos and dozens of police as witnesses. Yet they can't figure this thing out??

The Associated Press must be champing at the bit because they have seen uncensored video, but arent allowed to show it, while prosecutors flout their own gag order to leak more suspiciously edited video to CNN.