A Downtown Vision Project.

[TheArtist]

  I know there is a topic already about "Vision 11" scenarios.  But I would like to have some ideas on what you all may specifically think could go downtown. 

Think big and visionary.  Something that would get peoples attention and get them excited to go and vote yes sort of deal.  Also keep in mind something that could mesh with furthering the goals of the downtown area master plan.

Ideas?

[Dspike]

Convert OSU-Tulsa into a 4 year, residential university. To my knowledge, we remain the largest city in the country without a 4-year, public, residential university. And it disadvantages us when we train to recruit and retain young talent.

More specifically, pledge Vision matching funds (up to some large amount) to any private donations to build out the campus on the adjoining land still owned by the UCAT Trust for higher educational purposes. Use the Vision pledge to approach state legislators to remove the remaining legal barriers to running such a university. Most significantly, the law/rule that give TCC exclusive right to offer first and second year courses; secondarily, the law giving Langston-Tulsa first right of refusal on certain courses. Would need to come up with a way to compensate both TCC and Langston-Tulsa who are an important part of the higher ed puzzle in town.

State a goal (say 10,000 undergrads living on campus) that is ambitious enough it could impact downtown significantly. Having 10,000 students living on the edge of downtown would increase the likelihood of grocery stores, night life, hole in the wall food options, downtown public transit (circulator, trolley), and other amenities. And when students from surrounding areas come, they are more likely to stay in Tulsa.

Long term, moving I-244 underground to allow easier movement between the campus and the Brady District would be a great idea. But too early to push that idea.

[carltonplace]

I'm still a fan of your Cathedral Square idea Artist.

[TeeDub]

Convert OSU-Tulsa into a 4 year, residential university. To my knowledge, we remain the largest city in the country without a 4-year, public, residential university. And it disadvantages us when we train to recruit and retain young talent.

Oklahoma City?    Dallas?    


What about something like the Starlight Theater in KC.   I don't know where you could put it that the sound wouldn't offend the neighbors though.

[Dspike]

Oklahoma City?    Dallas?    

I should have been clearer. Tulsa is the largest metropolitan area without a 4-year residential public school (and I definitely could be proved wrong, I just recall that from the late 90s and don't know why it would have changed). Dallas/FT Worth has 3 UT school and 3 Texas State schools, not sure which are residential but I suspect several.

Oklahoma City has OU and arguably UCO, both within its metropolitan area. And we definitely lose students to OKC after they leave for OU. While I think having a full public university anywhere in the area would be helpful. Having it downtown is what makes it unique for our region (compare KU, OU, OSU, UA, Mizzou). Given the growing desire of young folks to live in and around urban areas, it would be a great recruiting tool even if the school started as #3 among the public major universities in the state.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Since Boulder has been redefined in a separate metropolitan statistical area, that might make Denver the largest metro area with no 4 year residential state school.  It has University of Colorado-Denver, which this page claims has a 95% commuter rate, and Metro State, whose percentage I couldn't find but this page describes as mostly commuter.

To the extent those schools appear to have some dorms, and are thus residential, then you would have to recognize Rogers State as being residential (RSU only has 90% commuter rate), thus giving the Tulsa area a 4 year, public, residential school.

But I'd definitely still like to see OSU-Tulsa go full bore. I wouldn't mind seeing OU-Tulsa do the same, TCC expand (I think community colleges serve an important roll), and TU open a building or special graduate program downtown (I know they tried that with the med school in the Hartford building). Still think OSU is the most likely scenario and one of the best hopes for downtown.

[918Razorback]

Hi folks!
So I have been looking at this forum for years, and have yet to register to actually have some input with topics like these. Downtown development has always been my favorite subject, especially with Tulsa. This forum sparked a thought of mine when I was a student at the School of Architecture at Arkansas. I worked at the UACDC http://uacdc.uark.edu (University of Arkansas Community Design Center) which did case studies on how to redevelop cities in the region (The biggest being Little Rock, who at a much smaller scale, is going through a downtown revitalization as well.). VERY interesting and extremely well thought out scenarios. I immediately can think how some can be applied to Tulsa.
Some examples:

Creative Corridor: http://uacdc.uark.edu/work/the-creative-corridor
Townscaping an Automobile-Oriented Fabric: http://uacdc.uark.edu/work/townscaping-an-automobile-oriented-fabric

There are a lot of awesome and exciting ideas around that site that are worth taking a look at!

[LandArchPoke]

Since Boulder has been redefined in a separate metropolitan statistical area, that might make Denver the largest metro area with no 4 year residential state school.  It has University of Colorado-Denver, which this page claims has a 95% commuter rate, and Metro State, whose percentage I couldn't find but this page describes as mostly commuter.

To the extent those schools appear to have some dorms, and are thus residential, then you would have to recognize Rogers State as being residential (RSU only has 90% commuter rate), thus giving the Tulsa area a 4 year, public, residential school.

But I'd definitely still like to see OSU-Tulsa go full bore. I wouldn't mind seeing OU-Tulsa do the same, TCC expand (I think community colleges serve an important roll), and TU open a building or special graduate program downtown (I know they tried that with the med school in the Hartford building). Still think OSU is the most likely scenario and one of the best hopes for downtown.

Roger's State does give the area a "full 4-year university". This is a pipe dream, but I'd love to see 1 of these two things happen or both. Re-brand Roger's State to something like Tulsa State University or Oklahoma Technological University - something that brands the university as something more recognizable and sell-able to students outside of Tulsa. I do believe that RSU falls under the OU umbrella so doing this would be very complicated and political I'm sure. I'd then like to see them build a branch campus downtown focus on STEM, Business, etc. with student housing options to make it a full-service campus.

The other, is sell the current TCC Metro campus. Use the proceeds and Vision money to construct the same sq. ft. of classroom space on the OSU-Tulsa campus (specifically the surface parking lots). This would create the feel of a full 4-year university and would create a density and synergy of students between TCC/OSU/Langston. This would also make it more ideal for student housing development because someone could essentially spend all 4-years in the same location and go from TCC and transfer into OSU or Langston which is how the vast majority of OSU/Langston gets it's student population for the Tulsa campus.

We have got to figure out how to get more graduate programs in Tulsa. We are doing on par with undergrad education attainment in Tulsa compared to regional cities. Where we get blown away is continued education. OKC is kicking our behind in this sector and that is what is vital to bringing in any technology or research jobs that are going to pay high salaries.

The city needs to work in a partnership with OSU and/or a rebranded RSU to add a significant amount of graduate programs for this region and in downtown. This would be the key to fixing our talent problem that causes many companies to not even consider Tulsa because their workers would never be able to attain higher education once they finish their bachelors.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Roger's State does give the area a "full 4-year university". This is a pipe dream, but I'd love to see 1 of these two things happen or both. Re-brand Roger's State to something like Tulsa State University or Oklahoma Technological University - something that brands the university as something more recognizable and sell-able to students outside of Tulsa. I do believe that RSU falls under the OU umbrella so doing this would be very complicated and political I'm sure. I'd then like to see them build a branch campus downtown focus on STEM, Business, etc. with student housing options to make it a full-service campus.

The other, is sell the current TCC Metro campus. Use the proceeds and Vision money to construct the same sq. ft. of classroom space on the OSU-Tulsa campus (specifically the surface parking lots). This would create the feel of a full 4-year university and would create a density and synergy of students between TCC/OSU/Langston. This would also make it more ideal for student housing development because someone could essentially spend all 4-years in the same location and go from TCC and transfer into OSU or Langston which is how the vast majority of OSU/Langston gets it's student population for the Tulsa campus.

We have got to figure out how to get more graduate programs in Tulsa. We are doing on par with undergrad education attainment in Tulsa compared to regional cities. Where we get blown away is continued education. OKC is kicking our behind in this sector and that is what is vital to bringing in any technology or research jobs that are going to pay high salaries.

The city needs to work in a partnership with OSU and/or a rebranded RSU to add a significant amount of graduate programs for this region and in downtown. This would be the key to fixing our talent problem that causes many companies to not even consider Tulsa because their workers would never be able to attain higher education once they finish their bachelors.

I have wanted to see the full university available in Tulsa since the 60's.  And we have it.  OSU-Tulsa has the graduate/advanced degrees available today.  And has had for quite a while.  Especially in SOME STEM topics - engineering is well represented - Electrical and Mechanical...the only real engineering types anyway - while math and physics are sucking hind teat in this town at OSU.  Have kind of lost touch with the true 'science' events in town - Amoco Research is long gone and I don't know who, if anyone is doing any real research outside of medical, so it may not matter much.  

Companies who don't come here because employees can't get higher education here - don't exist.  Employees CAN get higher education here, but the company may have to be flexible on scheduling if that is really one of their goals.  That is often seen as a "bullet point" - advanced education - but when it comes right down to it, the student will still have to do the work and probably have to push the company a little.  Many (most?) companies already offer tuition assistance, and many have flex time work schedules that allow people to work around a class.  A disturbing trend I have seen in the last couple of years when talking to local companies is a more rigid/inflexible policy surrounding 'flex time'.  Stupid thought process - eliminating flex time for professional people (STEM's).

It is still tough to get evening classes, although there are more now than there used to be.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And this just in....

I have worked with Dr. Singh hiring interns from TU in a previous life.  Very deserving of this recognition - he is walking the walk for technical skills development and all around good guy!!

https://engineering.utulsa.edu/news/singh-ocast-award/



Sorry about thread drift....just a little bit!!

[davideinstein]

Soccer stadium.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Unfunded Capital Projects in the Running for Tulsa Vision Renewal Funding

Discussions on how to use a possible Vision sales tax renewal in Tulsa have just begun, but a list of unfunded capital projects is already in the mix.

Capital Planning Manager Gary Hamer told councilors paying for things like a downtown circulator is one challenge.

"The biggest obstacle is identifying a sustainable source of continuing, ongoing operations, which is a challenge we face with almost every aspect of the city's operations," Hamer said.

Hamer said there are four priority items on the city's capital improvement plan: the downtown circulator, reducing train noise downtown, implementing a Red Fork area plan and redeveloping the Evans-Fintube site.

"So those four priorities in the public CIP total about $43 million," Hamer said.

The big-money items were the downtown circulator at $27 million and redeveloping the Evans-Fintube site at $10 million.

Planning Director Dawn Warrick told councilors the site could still be a tough sell after that investment, however.

"Unless we can relocate the Watco rail line and the transloading facility that's immediately to the west of that city-owned property, we're going to continue to struggle to find redevelopment that can happen there and that can make reasonable and meaningful connections to both OSU Tulsa and to downtown," Warrick said.

Evans-Fintube is just north of downtown. The 22-acre facility is an EPA brownfield site, meaning it housed hazardous chemicals.

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/unfunded-capital-projects-running-tulsa-vision-renewal-funding

[SXSW]

I agree an expanded OSU-Tulsa is a key component to not only increased downtown revitalization but also for the economic development in Tulsa.  OSU has to be fully on board though first and has not shown a very strong commitment to growing their presence (outside of building a big brick tower .  It's been nearly a decade since the last major construction project was completed on its campus.  There's likely a funding issue there that the city could help with but there also has to be the will and leadership from OSU to build an independent 4 year university in Tulsa.  If that commitment is there then the first step would be to infill the parking lots in between the ATRC and rest of campus with new buildings for expanded undergrad and grad programs, build new urban student housing on the vacant lots to the west of Detroit and create a research/innovation district in the north part of the Brady District for OSU's primary research initiatives and public/private partnerships (basically what OU has done in Norman but in an urban setting).

Another vision project would be to bridge the gap between the CBD and Blue Dome by building a new park on the parking lot between Cincinnati/Detroit and 2nd/3rd.  Make it an interactive park like Guthrie Green but with its own personality, and a larger water feature to take advantage of the natural slope of that site.  The view of the downtown skyline from across that lot is already one of the best in town.  Bookend the south end of the park with a new science museum.  Zone the remaining parcels on the north and east ends of the park as mixed-use residential and provide seed funding to developers for those projects.  On the west end of the park renovate the PAC (which is starting to look pretty dated) and open up the lobby with glass that wraps around to the east side with views of the park.  Build a new home for the Tulsa School of Arts & Sciences on the lot across the street that also includes a performing arts space that can be shared between TSAS and the PAC.  Include public parking as part of that project.

[TheArtist]

  The PAC would like a smaller theater so that more acts could play longer and not get bumped for when the big acts rotate in.  That site has been talked about for some development to tie the CBD with Blue Dome etc.  I also agree that the PAC could use some renovating.  I too would love to see the front wall ripped out and glass put in.  Would really add life and interest to that area and look glamorous at night with the lights glowing and all the dressed up people milling around inside being able to be seen from the street and being able to see the people being dropped off and coming inside.

I wonder if the wall on the East side would be big enough to put a screen on and do something like that Kansas City outdoor thing there?  IN the parking lot across the way. Put retail on the ground floor, then a small amphitheater above facing the wall, parking behind. Perhaps have a screen attached to the side of the building and out over the sidewalk and leaning out at the top over the street, then on the opposite side a logia for the shops and start the seating above, over the sidewalk to move the distance closer, though even the drive in theater has a good distance between the "first row" and the screen.

[SXSW]

 The PAC would like a smaller theater so that more acts could play longer and not get bumped for when the big acts rotate in.  That site has been talked about for some development to tie the CBD with Blue Dome etc.  I also agree that the PAC could use some renovating.  I too would love to see the front wall ripped out and glass put in.  Would really add life and interest to that area and look glamorous at night with the lights glowing and all the dressed up people milling around inside being able to be seen from the street and being able to see the people being dropped off and coming inside.

I wonder if the wall on the East side would be big enough to put a screen on and do something like that Kansas City outdoor thing there?  IN the parking lot across the way. Put retail on the ground floor, then a small amphitheater above facing the wall, parking behind. Perhaps have a screen attached to the side of the building and out over the sidewalk and leaning out at the top over the street, then on the opposite side a logia for the shops and start the seating above, over the sidewalk to move the distance closer, though even the drive in theater has a good distance between the "first row" and the screen.

Lots of creative things could be done with the east wall of the PAC with a park across the street.  

I'd like to see each district downtown revolve around a park space.  You already have that with Guthrie Green in the Brady, and I think eventually the same could happen for Centennial Green on Boston for the CBD (needs a lot of work still).  The two remaining parks would be new ones at this location in Blue Dome by the PAC and one next to the BOK.  That one would replace the Federal Bldg when it finally gets a new home with a highrise convention hotel on the west side of that double block and a park facing Denver.  It could tie into an expanded convention center across Frisco if the civic parking garage were moved west of Houston.  Perfect location for a larger Winterfest and other festivals in that area.