Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas

[TheArtist]

That's what the RWRE wants...a theocracy, modeled along the lines of what Iran has enjoyed for decades.  About 60% of Republicans want that right now.

And our state clown show is drawing the most psychotic of the psycho's giving us a serious bias as these new people who want that kind of life move in.  Oklahoma is becoming a cult state.  Branch Oklahomavidians have taken over.... Mary Koresh-Failin' ain't quite David, but the next one is coming soon to a Kool-Aid parlor near you!!  (Yeah, I know...mixing metaphors.)

Funny you mention Iran.  With their oil now likely to begin flowing back into the market here in the near future, should help keep oil prices low or lower.  

Thought I heard on the radio the other day that its likely that this year will see Oklahoma's growth go into negative territory.  This last year (whatever time scale they actually use as the beginning and end to a year I don't recall) we were at about .6% growth.   Tulsa is also likely to see population declines.

We really should have been and need to be pushing hard to become competitive in todays world and paying attention to todays trends (and of course histories lessons).  I get so tired of this city, and state, only stepping up to do dramatic things AFTER disaster is sitting squarely in our laps and making itself at home, and not when its walking straight towards us and looking us in the eyes lol.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Funny you mention Iran.  With their oil now likely to begin flowing back into the market here in the near future, should help keep oil prices low or lower.  

Thought I heard on the radio the other day that its likely that this year will see Oklahoma's growth go into negative territory.  This last year (whatever time scale they actually use as the beginning and end to a year I don't recall) we were at about .6% growth.   Tulsa is also likely to see population declines.

We really should have been and need to be pushing hard to become competitive in todays world and paying attention to todays trends (and of course histories lessons).  I get so tired of this city, and state, only stepping up to do dramatic things AFTER disaster is sitting squarely in our laps and making itself at home, and not when its walking straight towards us and looking us in the eyes lol.  

Saudi seems to still have the biggest grip on prices.  And they have said for years that they want a price somewhere near $60.  We will see if they continue with that - I am sure they have done a lot of present/future value calculations to come up with a number.


As a nation as well as state - we are always in "knee-jerk" reaction mode.  That's where the second R in RWRE comes from - Reactionary!  If we were thinking ahead - or even just thinking - we would be proactive, which would give us more progress, which leads us to be more progressive, which would benefit everyone (not just the "chosen", entitled ones) which is exactly opposite what the RWRE wants for the country.  And yet, half of us still buy into their BS.... go figure...

[Jammie]

I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?

[Hoss]

I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?

So how would you fill the shortfall we currently have?  Ad valorem/property tax increase?  Increase the state sales tax?

[TheArtist]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the state government/taxes all together and just letting the cities take over the taxing and spending of their own money. Versus us sending our money a hundred miles a way so that some bureaucracy there can skim off a portion and us have to spend a lot of time and effort begging for what remains back and then watch as we constantly get gipped in the process. 

[Hoss]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the state government/taxes all together and just letting the cities take over the taxing and spending of their own money. Versus us sending our money a hundred miles a way so that some bureaucracy there can skim off a portion and us have to spend a lot of time and effort begging for what remains back and then watch as we constantly get gipped in the process. 

You think the cities would do any better?  I really don't hold much faith in local government either.

[Conan71]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the state government/taxes all together and just letting the cities take over the taxing and spending of their own money. Versus us sending our money a hundred miles a way so that some bureaucracy there can skim off a portion and us have to spend a lot of time and effort begging for what remains back and then watch as we constantly get gipped in the process. 

Only problem with that is how do we fund state roads, state parks, and other functions currently taken care of by state government like a legislature which passes anachronistic laws which make us look like total flat-earthers?

[TheArtist]

 

Only problem with that is how do we fund state roads, state parks, and other functions currently taken care of by state government like a legislature which passes anachronistic laws which make us look like total flat-earthers?

Let the private sector do the roads, and if say we want rail between cities we can coordinate, perhaps with federal gov help to do that.  As for State Parks, I am sure the people that are interested in such things (philanthropists, nature/environmental groups. history buffs, etc.) can coordinate something better to do that if they want.

[cannon_fodder]

I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?

Because we have failing infrastructure, failing schools, and failing public health. Because we are a poor state that cannot fund these thing from regressive use taxes. Because the tactic of the last 20 years of "cutting our way to prosperity" has increased the concentration of wealth to the detriment of most people while simultaneously increasing the failures stated above. Not too mention a litany of other failures (public services, parks, arts, etc. etc. etc.)

Im happy to consider alternatives, but the status quo has led to failure. The answer isn't to double down on the cuts...

[heironymouspasparagus]

I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?

First, what do you consider high??  Our progressive tax peaks at about 5 1/4% or so...and it has only been since Mary Failin's cutting binge that we have given huge tax cuts to the richest and massive spending cuts - to the tune of 25% per child - in education.

And then there are roads and all the topics cannon_fodder talked about....

Okrahoma has failed - due to all the 'sauerkrauts' we have attracted here.  When we take Mississippi's place at number 50, we have failed - and that is where we are today.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Let the private sector do the roads

Let's look at one way that might work. A private sector company takes over all state, county and city roads and highways. To generate revenue to pay for them they decide that they are going to charge every registered vehicle $10.00 for every 100 miles driven. You will have to pay to have a device installed in your car to monitor an report miles driven, as well as if tampering is done, or if repairs are made to the vehicle you will have to pay a re-certification fee. To offset the cost of the equipment, an a lower insurance rate for the owner, this company has worked out a deal with the insurance companies to supply them with your driving habits. And for lower income people there will be an assistance program provided by the state paid for by a $.35/gallon user fee at the pump. (emergency vehicles would be exempt)

[swake]

Fixing our roads is quite simple.

Our gas tax is 17 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.48.
Our Diesel tax is 14 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.1.

We have the fourth worst roads and the fourth lowest gas taxes.   

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Fixing our roads is quite simple.

Our gas tax is 17 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.48.
Our Diesel tax is 14 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.1.

We have the fourth worst roads and the fourth lowest gas taxes.  

$.02/gal cheaper than Arizona that has really good roads, and almost $.15/gal cheaper than Oregon with really crappy roads.

http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/gasoline-tax-map.pdf

Edit: additional info;

The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States

So that makes the Oklahoma taxes on gasoline $.17/gal plus $.18.4/gal federal for $.35.4/gal. Arizona gasoline taxes are $.19/gal and Oregon is $.31.7/gal is almost twice what Oklahoma fuel tax is.

This map is better, move your pointer to a state and it shows the breakdown for that state.

Gasoline
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes/gasoline-tax

Diesel
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes/diesel-tax

[cannon_fodder]

It is undisputed that maintaining infrastructure takes money.

Roads are REALLLLY easy to fund as a use tax. The gas tax is so simple. It inherently charges larger vehicles that are harder on the roads MORE. It inherently charges people that drive MORE. It inherently brings the revenue in where people tend to drive.

So even with a clear need everyone agrees on and a method of funding that nearly everyone agrees is almost perfect, it still doesn't happen because "taxes bad."

The miles driven tax might make sense when electric becomes more common, but it will have to be a formula. Miles driven x weight x multiplier = taxes owe. The problem there is that the tax will be a sudden hit, and ergo, most people can't pay it AND the incentive to cheat goes WAY up.

[Jammie]

I hesitate posting after the private message from Davazz. I fear he's the same stalker who detoured me from this site a few years ago, found me on a new site, posted my full name and addy and has obviously returned. Chavazz, probably. SIGH!

I don't have the answer about how to replace the money from state income tax. All I know is that my state has none and we aren't in the red. (not bragging, just sayin') Property taxes here are considerably higher then in OK, even though there was a 30% cut when gambling was legalized several years ago. A huge portion of the gambling money was supposed to go to education, but no one seems to believe that actually happened. Naturally, that makes rent higher here then in OK except for the itty bitty towns that have nothing left.

We have no toll roads. Do you have a wheel tax? Ours just went up to $4 per wheel. Our license plates have gone up, but are still cheaper then many states. ($43 for a 2010 Chevy)

We have a high hotel tax, but part of it is a "TIF" and goes to fund projects in our cities. I believe the rate is 14%.  Tax here is 7% and part of that is a city tax. The tax on food is 6%. I believe Tulsa's tax is 9%, but I don't know if that includes food or if it's all state tax.

The map that was posted does show that gas taxes are much less in OK then here. Cigarette tax is higher here also. So I don't know what a better alternative would be. Just asking.