How big is corporate Welfare in Oklahoma?

[TeeDub]

So I'm not sure what you have "debunked."

Last time I checked (and you are right, my degree is NOT in accounting), 100% did not equal 65%.

Nothing more.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Don't forget the fees and charges that are fed back from companies to private entities the provide "consulting services" to "facilitate" progress on any desired project.

All other states - well except maybe Louisiana and Chicago - would call these kickbacks.  Funded to the tune of that $565 per family member....

[cannon_fodder]

Last time I checked (and you are right, my degree is NOT in accounting), 100% did not equal 65%.

Nothing more.

I gave you an executive summary on why relying on sales tax for the majority of municipal funding is a stupid idea, and you sharp shoot one clause?

Thank you for adding value to the conversation...

[TeeDub]

I gave you an executive summary on why relying on sales tax for the majority of municipal funding is a stupid idea, and you sharp shoot one clause?

Thank you for adding value to the conversation...

I think the city gets more than enough money.   Just because they choose to spend it foolishly by doing things like buying large buildings from their business associates or funding study after study after study, is not my problem.   Yes, the majority of their revenues come from sales taxes...   You said 100%, I disproved that as being grossly wrong.

Maybe instead of feeding the machine, the city should man up and learn to operate within its means.    (Just like if I had spending habits that exceeded my income.)

[cannon_fodder]

Ahh yes, the "whatever the tax level is is too much" theory. I'm confident there is waste, but I also know we have closed community pools, centers, under fund education, parks, and beautification projections. Our roads are crumbling, our water mains burst so regularly it is included in traffic reports, and our traffic reports often include warnings about holes in bridges.

Furthermore, my complaint wasn't even geared towards the AMOUNT of money we receive. But the source and the consequences thereof.

A point that you have still steadfastly refused to acknowledge, address, or contribute to.

But thanks again for your stellar contribution to the discussion on corporate subsidies and/or the merits of funding with sales tax.

[TeeDub]

Cities in Oklahoma have the option to use General Obligation bonds which are recovered through the use of property taxes. 

Sales tax makes sense.   The more dollars you have spent in a city gives the city more revenues.   Create more jobs, get more revenue (assuming the company or its employees spend even a dollar in the city.)   I don't see the shortfall numbers that necessitate the need for cities to begin to use property tax as a revenue stream.   

Would it be potentially more stable than an income tax?   Probably, especially for small rural towns whose retail base has dried up.    Would it adapt and provide immediate revenue like a sales tax?   Definitely not.


I am still lost as to how cities have only one source of revenue.

[cannon_fodder]

All other forms of revenue are restricted.

Either Oklahoma is genius and has figured out a better system than the rest of the world, or we are doing it wrong. I tend to think the latter based on my previous statements.

We have strayed way off topic, I apologize.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Ahh yes, the "whatever the tax level is is too much" theory. I'm confident there is waste, but I also know we have closed community pools, centers, under fund education, parks, and beautification projections. Our roads are crumbling, our water mains burst so regularly it is included in traffic reports, and our traffic reports often include warnings about holes in bridges.

You are no where near "off topic" (taken from another of your posts)...you are dead on.  And the magnitude of the problems you touch on will only grow.  Corporate welfare is just one piece of the problem.

We have waste and corruption - in a previous life, I was front row observer to how the state legislature works on several occasions - I didn't actually carry the money, but saw the money and saw the car port designs - held them in my hands - that were 'bought' from a local Tulsa legislator who also happened to be a 'consultant' during the law making process.

And we just keep on electing the clown show!!  There is little if any hope for the state....

[cannon_fodder]

Some of the tax breaks for Macy's are being questioned:
https://www.readfrontier.com/investigation/assessor-questions-whether-law-allows-macys-to-collect-tax-breaks/

You are not supposed to be able to give property tax incentives or exemptions to retail establishments. Who knew? So the question is - is a direct-to-customer order fulfillment center a retail establishment?

In that they are not paying Oklahoma sales tax on the item, I suspect not. Seems to be the crux of the law to me. But, nonetheless, interesting development.

[PonderInc]

Great topic, and interesting conversation.  The City provides a pretty nice executive summary of the budget:
https://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/426340/02%20Executive%20Summary.pdf

Here are two interesting graphs:



On the revenues side of things, "taxes" refers to:
Sales tax, use tax, franchise tax/right-of-way user fees, hotel/motel tax, and ad valorem tax. ("The State Constitution requires Tulsa make an annual Ad Valorem tax levy sufficient to pay for the principal and interest on bonded indebtedness and any court judgments against the City."  I don't think we're allowed to use it for anything else.)

Enterprise revenues are:
"Charges for using utility services, emergency medical services, and golf courses are sources of revenue for the enterprise funds. Utility charges include revenues generated by the water system, the sanitary sewer system, the solid waste disposal service, and the stormwater management program. The Emergency Medical Services Authority (EMSA) fees are collected and used to help fund the operations of emergency medical services. Golf course revenue is generated from the operations of Page Belcher and Mohawk Golf Courses."

I don't know how our expenditures compare to other cities, but it looks to me as if roads, infrastructure repair, public safety and debt (for more roads and infrastructure?) takes up most of the pie.

Now for my current favorite statistic:
Since 1963, the population of Tulsa has increased about 30%.  During that same time the city's geographic area has increased about 300%.

Gosh, I wonder why we can't afford all the cops and roads....?