Vision Extension - IDL Removal/Demolition

[johrasephoenix]

Instead of burying, how much cheaper is to convert to a boulevard?  If you converted either the southern or eastern leg and left the other intact anyone coming in on the BA could still easily loop around to anywhere they need to go. 

[cannon_fodder]

I was watching the Tour de France lat night (yes, I'm a nerd). Coverage includes amazing helicopter shots of the surrounding countryside, forests, rivers, chateaus, castles and towns. Really beautiful.

As they pulled into a town last night they were showing a brick arched bridged going over a river about half the width of the Arkansas riverbed. A two lane bridge with regular traffic flowing over it. Which was built nearly 700 years ago.

But we can't maintain a road in Tulsa for 10 years without it falling apart...

/tangent

[AquaMan]

Well, we can. The railroad bridge just north of the 66 bridge dates back to the late 1800's and has carried constant heavy loads. Made from stone. But what's the economic value of that? the railroad had to pay for that bridge themselves whereas the IDL was taxpayer money. It would mean fewer public works contracts, less concrete, less asphalt...fewer jobs and less money passed around. What are you, some kind of anti-business person?

[DTowner]

Well, we can. The railroad bridge just north of the 66 bridge dates back to the late 1800's and has carried constant heavy loads. Made from stone. But what's the economic value of that? the railroad had to pay for that bridge themselves whereas the IDL was taxpayer money. It would mean fewer public works contracts, less concrete, less asphalt...fewer jobs and less money passed around. What are you, some kind of anti-business person?

While shoddy work may be a problem, the real difference is the railroad (or any private entity) better understands the importance of routine maintenance in preserving and extending the life of its track and bridges.  Politicians don't attract many votes for preventing pot holes, but can sing their own praises for building new roads or rebuilding those that have crumbled due to a lack of routine maintenance.

[Markk]

While shoddy work may be a problem, the real difference is the railroad (or any private entity) better understands the importance of routine maintenance in preserving and extending the life of its track and bridges.  Politicians don't attract many votes for preventing pot holes, but can sing their own praises for building new roads or rebuilding those that have crumbled due to a lack of routine maintenance.

You're correct.  The mindset is so stupid that it hurts my brain just to think about it.

Now that the concrete work appears to be done on the BA southeast of downtown, are they going to also do asphalt?  Even after the repairs, the road is still very bumpy.  Not "damage your car bumpy" like before, but still bumpy. 

[AquaMan]

That is the absolute truth. Though in fact since the 1980's shoddy workmanship and materials exacerbate the problems. Always choosing the low bidder, insisting that its our freeze/thaw that is causing the problems and ignoring routine maintenance while budgets stagnated due to lower tax collections makes a toxic witches brew.

[DTowner]

Now that the concrete work appears to be done on the BA southeast of downtown, are they going to also do asphalt?  Even after the repairs, the road is still very bumpy.  Not "damage your car bumpy" like before, but still bumpy.  

I am really surprised at how rough the new concrete is - better than the gaping pot holes that were replaced, but still rough.  Also, the exit ramp on North 75 and entrance lane off of Cincinnati still have a lot of pot holes.  Hopefully they are not done.

[godboko71]

I am really surprised at how rough the new concrete is - better than the gaping pot holes that were replaced, but still rough.  Also, the exit ramp on North 75 and entrance lane off of Cincinnati still have a lot of pot holes.  Hopefully they are not done.

With all the bridge work being done and ll the clearly visible mistakes it won't be long before it's back to being just as bad as it was. Who engineered the patch work? There are thin patches of concrete that will crack and chip especially with all the heavy equipment for all the bridge work.

It's depressing we are wasting so much money on a fix that barely makes it better and is short term. Anyway apologies for thread drift.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well, we can. The railroad bridge just north of the 66 bridge dates back to the late 1800's and has carried constant heavy loads. Made from stone. But what's the economic value of that? the railroad had to pay for that bridge themselves whereas the IDL was taxpayer money. It would mean fewer public works contracts, less concrete, less asphalt...fewer jobs and less money passed around. What are you, some kind of anti-business person?

Sounds like a Communist plot - actual public works to the benefit of the public..!!  At the very least, it is Un-American!!

[rdj]

You're correct.  The mindset is so stupid that it hurts my brain just to think about it.

Now that the concrete work appears to be done on the BA southeast of downtown, are they going to also do asphalt?  Even after the repairs, the road is still very bumpy.  Not "damage your car bumpy" like before, but still bumpy. 

They intend to cover the repaired concrete sub with the asphalt developed by the former SemMaterials unit now called Road Science.

[SXSW]

Rochester, NY (about the same size metro as Tulsa) is dismantling and burying part of their inner loop.  So it can be done...

https://www.google.com/amp/www.citylab.com/amp/article/498203/?client=safari

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I got an easy way to pay for it, have the OTA bury it and make it a toll tunnel. They can lump it together with the Gilcrease Turnpike and Tulsa will have something more than OKC has, connection to go anywhere out of town will all be toll roads. Cimarron, Cherokee, Creek, Turner, Muskogee, Will Rogers, Indian Nations and The Dick Crawford Memorial Toll Tunnel.

[cannon_fodder]

Read more on that project:  Rochester is spending $31mil to remove 2/3rds of a mile of a sunken stretch of roadway that is not designated a federal highway or interstate and replacing it with a grade level boulevard. It would cost ~$40mil to rebuild the section due to the numerous bridge replacements and other maintenance they are way, way behind on.  It would be similar to removing 444 if it wasn't an interstate, didn't have complex connections are both ends as well as off ramp, was sunken instead of raised, and hadn't just had money spent on it.  However, 444 has major infrastructure simply to support this leg. To get on from or off from the BA, to get on and off or go under 244. Not to mention the street in the east end designed to accommodate it.

https://www.dot.ny.gov/recovery/sponsors/tiger/repository/74CDA1D23A0D90B2E0430A3DFC0390B2

It works well because they don't need to change any interchanges and fixing it would be more expensive than changing it around. Plus, central Rochester is really choked in... about a 6x6 block square surrounded by the river and the loop.

It could work well in Tulsa too, if it was a 20 year plan. When it comes time to redo those interchanges again - do something different and divert traffic around downtown. I don't think it would be too difficult or cause too many traffic problems. It would be more expensive because it requires redoing interchanges, but if it was long term and cut the cost of redoing them in the future it could work.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

All they are doing is burying it. The street, and yes it's a city street, and the bridges are worn as badly as the bridges over it from the rough northern NY winters. It's a zero sum gain, other than saving the money from having to replace the bridges. When the project is done with the new roadway, it looks like they will gain maybe 50 feet of land.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.155947,-77.5971547,3a,75y,151.18h,78.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg_e_YYqbaWubIgcrQ0rPPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

[RecycleMichael]

It is an important 50 feet. Just think of the safety of keeping cars and people apart.

It would be prime real estate in Tulsa as proposed. The land value would almost equal anything in Tulsa County.

I think it is an interesting idea. It could be a blend of built and new green space together in a great spot for both.