Trump

[swake]

This is one of Trump's potential SCOTUS picks, William Pryor is on his list of candidates. Here's what Pryor things of gay people, lock em up!

In a 2003 legal brief arguing to uphold a Texas law criminalizing consensual LGBT sex, Pryor compared it to "polygamy, incest, pedophilia, prostitution, and adultery" and argued that states should be free to prosecute gay people as criminals. He said the rights of LGBT people as a group are not protected by the Constitution.

"This Court [the Supreme Court] has never recognized a fundamental right to engage in sexual activity outside of monogamous heterosexual marriage, let alone to engage in homosexual sodomy," Pryor wrote. "Such a right would be antithetical to the 'traditional relation of the family' that is 'as old and as fundamental as our entire civilization."

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/trump-scotus-pick-william-pryor-would-have-let-states-jail-lgbt-people-for-having-sex-in-their-homes/

[erfalf]

This is very scary, registration of people based on religion:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-registry-immigrants-policy-kris-bobach-reinstate-wall-a7420296.html

Maybe a stupid question, but are there no databases of immigrants currently being kept. Seems like name and origin would be something immigration would be interested in anyway.

[Cats Cats Cats]

That should already be happening.  I think the "issue" is that they will have special identification cards.

[erfalf]

That should already be happening.  I think the "issue" is that they will have special identification cards.

Hypothetical approaching...

If I wanted to get them all out of the country, an ID card seems pretty superfluous.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Hypothetical approaching...

If I wanted to get them all out of the country, an ID card seems pretty superfluous.

An ID saying you were Muslim.

[cannon_fodder]

For those not in the know, we are talking about Lawrence v. Texas.  The case tossed out the laws in Texas against oral or anal sex, vibrators, dildos, etc. (basically everything was illegal in Texas except vaginal sex and "manually stimulation with ones hand"). Remember all that crap about "small government" Republicans?  It died a long, long time ago. Small government isn't just low taxes, more importantly it's government not telling me what I can and can't do with my wife in my bedroom. Its difficult to fathom a more "big government."

The takeaway ruling in that case is that the government has no business regulating conduct of consenting adults in their own bedroom. William Prior, a guy in Alabama and not obligated to be involved in the case, argued that the State of Texas had an interest in controlling the conduct of its citizens in the bedroom, up to and including the right to declare particular sex acts between consenting adults illegal - to be blunt, any sex act that was not intended to result in reproduction could be regulated.

The Court strongly disagreed...

Liberty protects the person from unwarranted government intrusions into a dwelling or other private places. In our tradition the State is not omnipresent in the home. And there are other spheres of our lives and existence, outside the home, where the State should not be a dominant presence. Freedom extends beyond spatial bounds. Liberty presumes an autonomy of self that includes freedom of thought, belief, expression, and certain intimate conduct. The instant case involves liberty of the person both in its spatial and more transcendent dimensions.
. . .
We conclude the case should be resolved by determining whether the petitioners were free as adults to engage in the private conduct in the exercise of their liberty under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution.
. . .
This, as a general rule, should counsel against attempts by the State, or a court, to define the meaning of the relationship or to set its boundaries absent injury to a person or abuse of an institution the law protects. It suffices for us to acknowledge that adults may choose to enter upon this relationship in the confines of their homes and their own private lives and still retain their dignity as free persons.
. . .
The case does involve two adults who, with full and mutual consent from each other, engaged in sexual practices... The State cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime. Their right to liberty under the Due Process Clause gives them the full right to engage in their conduct without intervention of the government. "It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/02-102.ZO.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

This is very scary, registration of people based on religion:

And with all the apologist deniers blathering about what an injustice it is to associate Trump with any previous extremist right wing political figures....but doing exactly the same thing the Reich did at the beginning of it's time in Germany....

[patric]

And with all the apologist deniers blathering about what an injustice it is to associate Trump with any previous extremist right wing political figures....but doing exactly the same thing the Reich did at the beginning of it's time in Germany....

Draining Hiring The Swamp
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/pence-removes-lobbyists-trump-transition-team-controversial-names-remain-n684836

[Conan71]

This is very scary, registration of people based on religion:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-registry-immigrants-policy-kris-bobach-reinstate-wall-a7420296.html

The gist seems to be people from Muslim nations who want to move or visit here being kept in a database.  Essentially, this means if you come here on a visa from Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc. you will face extra scrutiny.  I don't see a problem with that since the Middle East is the epicenter of Islamic extremism which has been tied to terrorist attacks against U.S. citizens and property.  This is no different than keeping a database on any other legal immigrant here on a visa.

Aside from the "source" cited in the article not being clearly linked to the Trump Administration and the author taking liberties with wording, this is the kind of crap journalism has been reduced to.  People are very easily taken in by op-ed appearing as hard journalism or writers taking liberties with sources.

And what you are doing is not one bit different than what people were doing bringing up Obama's supposed policies and association with 1960's radicals.  Do you not see that you are no better than people who were crapping all over Obama?  Relax.  It's just politics. The brown shirts won't be kicking in front doors.

I don't fear the government near as much as I fear the damage people posing as journalists writing about government are doing to U.S. Society.  Essentially, people are turning on one another based on what they read on biased news sites or hear from biased commentators.  People have lost the ability to discern between facts and someone else's interpretation of facts.

[swake]

The gist seems to be people from Muslim nations who want to move or visit here being kept in a database.  Essentially, this means if you come here on a visa from Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc. you will face extra scrutiny.  I don't see a problem with that since the Middle East is the epicenter of Islamic extremism which has been tied to terrorist attacks against U.S. citizens and property.  This is no different than keeping a database on any other legal immigrant here on a visa.

Aside from the "source" cited in the article not being clearly linked to the Trump Administration and the author taking liberties with wording, this is the kind of crap journalism has been reduced to.  People are very easily taken in by op-ed appearing as hard journalism or writers taking liberties with sources.

And what you are doing is not one bit different than what people were doing bringing up Obama's supposed policies and association with 1960's radicals.  Do you not see that you are no better than people who were crapping all over Obama?  Relax.  It's just politics. The brown shirts won't be kicking in front doors.

I don't fear the government near as much as I fear the damage people posing as journalists writing about government are doing to U.S. Society.  Essentially, people are turning on one another based on what they read on biased news sites or hear from biased commentators.  People have lost the ability to discern between facts and someone else's interpretation of facts.

The Independent is a major UK news site staffed by real journalists. It's not a tabloid and not just someone posing as a journalist.

If that's not good enough for you, here's Foxnews on Kobach on Monday:

A key member of President-elect Donald Trump's transition team and a top adviser on matters involving immigration told FoxNews.com Monday the incoming administration will likely move to deport illegal immigrants upon arrest.

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a key player in several high-profile immigration measures and court cases, advised Trump on immigration during his campaign and will likely have a key role in shaping the new president's policies. Kobach said Trump is likely to scrap the Obama administration's approach of deporting only those who have been convicted, a policy he said releases dangerous people back into U.S. communities.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/14/top-trump-immigration-adviser-predicts-immediate-change.html


Additional stories on this by Reuters, Wapo, Politico and AOL
http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/16/immigration-hardliner-says-trump-team-talking-wall-muslim-registry/21607302/
http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/11/kobach-trump-considering-registry-for-some-immigrants-border-wall-without-congress-231470
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/11/16/daily-202-generational-divide-fuels-nascent-democratic-revolt-in-house/582bb5f3e9b69b6085905df4/
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN13B05C?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

[erfalf]

Swake,

You do realize the United States has no obligation to let visitors stay in this country. Particularly ones that take our hospitality for granted. And considering the middle eastern countries that we are discussing here don't really like us anyway, I don't really see a diplomatic reason for being overly courteous and welcoming to them either.

Not one of these people we are discussing has a constitutional right to anything here in this country. Now, when you can show me the white paper discussing deporting US citizens who happen to be Muslim, then I will start to be offended.

[Conan71]

The Independent is a major UK news site staffed by real journalists. It's not a tabloid and not just someone posing as a journalist.

If that's not good enough for you, here's Foxnews on Kobach on Monday:http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/14/top-trump-immigration-adviser-predicts-immediate-change.html


Additional stories on this by Reuters, Wapo, Politico and AOL
http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/16/immigration-hardliner-says-trump-team-talking-wall-muslim-registry/21607302/
http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/11/kobach-trump-considering-registry-for-some-immigrants-border-wall-without-congress-231470
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/11/16/daily-202-generational-divide-fuels-nascent-democratic-revolt-in-house/582bb5f3e9b69b6085905df4/
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN13B05C?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

Again they are talking about registering immigrants from Muslim countries like we do from other countries.  I suspect that would include Christians, agnostics, atheists, and and others seeking to emigrate or visit from a Muslim nation.  Making someone carry a card with their religious preference on it would never fly.  That's not the issue in the first place.

Do you even read the articles you post in their entirety or are you on such a spree to vent your spleen you just cut and paste links?

Garbage in garbage out, swake.

[Ed W]

The underlying assumption equates the Muslim faith with terrorism. Yet the majority of terrorist attacks in our country have been carried out by white, allegedly Christian males. Imagine the uproar if all those gun-totin' Billy Bob's had to register in some kind of database.

[swake]

The underlying assumption equates the Muslim faith with terrorism. Yet the majority of terrorist attacks in our country have been carried out by white, allegedly Christian males. Imagine the uproar if all those gun-totin' Billy Bob's had to register in some kind of database.

Exactly

[Conan71]

The underlying assumption equates the Muslim faith with terrorism. Yet the majority of terrorist attacks in our country have been carried out by white, allegedly Christian males. Imagine the uproar if all those gun-totin' Billy Bob's had to register in some kind of database.

They do.  When they purchase a gun from an FFL.  The serial numbers on their firearms can be traced. Their ownership can be traced.  And it's all stored in *gasp* databases!

Racism bothers me.  Racist attitudes bother me.  Hyperbole about racism bothers me probably worse because it creates unecessary fear.

The War on Terror is complicated because, for the first time, we weren't fighting a war defined by borders.  Multiple bad actors from multiple Middle Eastern and Asian countries have been involved.  What enemy combatants have in common are radical Islamic views.  That's reality not racism folks.  Radicalized Muslims don't like America, they don't like American citizens- they hate us.

Clearly, it is a small percentage of Muslims who participate in terrorist activities or combat.  What difference does it make if it takes a few months longer to enter the US or a US possession if it means more thorough vetting of guests and future citizens? 

I believe the tough talk by Trump on better vetting of immigrants from Muslim nations is nothing more than speaking to the people who elected him who think that isn't being done already.  If anyone believes it's not happening now, they aren't living in reality.  If anyone thinks it will be like having a scarlett letter if you are Muslim, you aren't living in reality either.