Trump

[heironymouspasparagus]

You mean that horrible Republican Brady and the horrible Republican Congress that passed the Brady Bill? Where they required gun dealers to actually verify the statements made that the buyer was legally allowed to own a firearm. The horror! Thanks Obama (for not being Republican and not having anything to do with the Brady Bill, I guess?)

Both Hillary and Obama have repeatedly and consistently said that they do not intend to remove guns from citizens who are legally allowed to possess firearms. Not only have they said they aren't going to do it, they actually haven't made any attempts at doing it. It has as much basis in reality as the news story that Trump won't release his tax returns because it shows donations to NAMBLA. A really fun conspiracy theory, but no basis in reality.

If Obama and/or Hillary was a dictator with no checks, do I think they would enact stronger gun control than Donald "I was in favor of gun control before I was against it" Drumpf? Sure (until Donald changes his mind again). Obama and Hillary would both allow local governments to restrict conceal carry or open carry. They would have stronger background checks. They would try to ban new assault rifles. I can see either of them doing those things. But those restrictions in no way amount to "taking our guns away!!!1!!1!!1!!" They are in no way trying to ban private citizens from owning guns. It's just nonsense for a huge number of reasons (ignoring the shear logistics [hi, we'd like 340 million guns please-] the fact that police/military wouldn't implement it, the fact it wouldn't pass Congress, the fact that Courts wouldn't uphold it on 2nd, 5th and 14th Amendment grounds).

In 2008 the NRA warned that Obama was going to introduce a "10 point plan" to change the 2nd Amendment. In 2000 the NRA warned that the Democrats in Congress had a plan to take away all privately owned semi automatic weapons. Now Hillary has a secret plan. Eventually, you have to just admit its bluster, a scare tactic, and a conspiracy theory to keep the cash and influence rolling in. You can only cry wolf a decade or two before rational people stop listening to you.

/sorry for the thread drift

Yeah... Republicans...People acting on Brady's behalf.  Dems got no monopoly on being wrong on the subject - George H W Bush resigned his Lifetime NRA membership to placate the nattering nabobs of negativity - very casually held principals sacrificed at the first sign of discomfort for political expediency.  And see how wrong they are about so much other stuff right now...Trump.  Cruz.  Ryan.  


And there has been no one as vile and disgusting on the topic as Trump.  His comments about the NRA taking care of Hillary.  You can tell that I am very pro-NRA.  I am even MORE against violence and threatening same.  It takes the most horrendous low life of bottom feeders to even say something like that...and his minions are exactly the same - continuing to support that ugliness.  There are not words... that I can use here!  

When added to his comments about POW's and mocking of the handicapped...well, I am at a loss for words.  Amazingly.  And the people that still support him - just as bad - it says exactly what they are, too!


We do have direct, applicable experience of exactly where Clinton's head is on this - she and Billy Bob were the architects of the semi-auto rifle and magazine ban during his term.  It was made absolutely obvious at the time that was just the first step to where they wanted to go.  They have "admired" Australia's method of gun control for a long time.  Even after the expiration of the ban, when it was completely obvious that it made NO difference they continue to advance this failed policy as something we should do again.  It's simple insanity - trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  How about working on some of the things that are actual causes??  As mentioned again earlier.


Edit;

Chicago is up to 2,526 shootings for the year in Chicago.  Up from I think about 1600 when I started posting about this.  In spite of draconian gun laws.  Shows what a mess Obama in the state legislature, and his buddy as mayor have made of the city.  Not improving at all - getting worse!   Perfect example of "looking where the light is better".

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/

[cannon_fodder]

Speaking of Trump - guess who refuses to release the names of his bundlers? Ding ding ding!

Guess who had dinner with Sheldon Adelson, the billionaire who was financing "Little Marco" and turned him into a "puppet" for big donors?

Harold Hamm agrees to speak at the GOP convention after Trump hints he might be appointed secretary of energy. Donation time!

Guess what every member of his "economic advisory council" has in common? Economic degrees? Nope. Experience in world economics? Nope. 6 figure donations to the Trump campaign?  Ding ding ding!

Guess who isn't, and never has self financed their campaign?

Gee Donald, it's almost like you mock others for activities that you engage in even more egregiously. Hypocrite.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-fundraising-bundlers-226803

[cannon_fodder]

I can't express how much I dislike this man on every possible level. I HATE conspiracy theories, and nearly everything this guy says is a conspiracy theory:

Losing the polls, media conspiracy theory.

If I lose the election, conspiracy theory.

Obama's birth certificate, conspiracy theory.

Mass shootings, conspiracy theory.

Man climbing Trump tower:

Donald J. Trump ‏@P0TUSTrump  5m5 minutes ago
Someone "coincidentally" climbs Trump Tower the same day emails leak proving Clinton Foundation is in cahoots with State Dept.
Coincidence?

Clearly a conspiracy theory. Behold, Hillary Clinton is all powerful!

[Hoss]

Yeah... Republicans...People acting on Brady's behalf.  Dems got no monopoly on being wrong on the subject - George H W Bush resigned his Lifetime NRA membership to placate the nattering nabobs of negativity - very casually held principals sacrificed at the first sign of discomfort for political expediency.  And see how wrong they are about so much other stuff right now...Trump.  Cruz.  Ryan.  


And there has been no one as vile and disgusting on the topic as Trump.  His comments about the NRA taking care of Hillary.  You can tell that I am very pro-NRA.  I am even MORE against violence and threatening same.  It takes the most horrendous low life of bottom feeders to even say something like that...and his minions are exactly the same - continuing to support that ugliness.  There are not words... that I can use here!  

When added to his comments about POW's and mocking of the handicapped...well, I am at a loss for words.  Amazingly.  And the people that still support him - just as bad - it says exactly what they are, too!


We do have direct, applicable experience of exactly where Clinton's head is on this - she and Billy Bob were the architects of the semi-auto rifle and magazine ban during his term.  It was made absolutely obvious at the time that was just the first step to where they wanted to go.  They have "admired" Australia's method of gun control for a long time.  Even after the expiration of the ban, when it was completely obvious that it made NO difference they continue to advance this failed policy as something we should do again.  It's simple insanity - trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  How about working on some of the things that are actual causes??  As mentioned again earlier.


Edit;

Chicago is up to 2,526 shootings for the year in Chicago.  Up from I think about 1600 when I started posting about this.  In spite of draconian gun laws.  Shows what a mess Obama in the state legislature, and his buddy as mayor have made of the city.  Not improving at all - getting worse!   Perfect example of "looking where the light is better".

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/

You may be a moderate when it comes to other items, but when it comes to gun-control you are pretty much full on hard-right conservative.  I own three guns and not once have I been worried about them being taken.

However, the tell was when you indicated you were a lifetime NRA member.  Then the light went on.

The NRA got so bad early enough on that George HW resigned his lifetime membership based on how the NRA acts.  Which really is more like an arm of the gun lobby and more for gun manufacturers than what they used to do...which is educate gun owners.

Dear Mr. Washington,

I was outraged when, even in the wake of the Oklahoma City tragedy, Mr. Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of N.R.A., defended his attack on federal agents as "jack-booted thugs." To attack Secret Service agents or A.T.F. people or any government law enforcement people as "wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms" wanting to "attack law abiding citizens" is a vicious slander on good people.

Al Whicher, who served on my [United States Secret Service] detail when I was Vice President and President, was killed in Oklahoma City. He was no Nazi. He was a kind man, a loving parent, a man dedicated to serving his country — and serve it well he did.

In 1993, I attended the wake for A.T.F. agent Steve Willis, another dedicated officer who did his duty. I can assure you that this honorable man, killed by weird cultists, was no Nazi.

John Magaw, who used to head the U.S.S.S. and now heads A.T.F., is one of the most principled, decent men I have ever known. He would be the last to condone the kind of illegal behavior your ugly letter charges. The same is true for the F.B.I.'s able Director Louis Freeh. I appointed Mr. Freeh to the Federal Bench. His integrity and honor are beyond question.

Both John Magaw and Judge Freeh were in office when I was President. They both now serve in the current administration. They both have badges. Neither of them would ever give the government's "go ahead to harass, intimidate, even murder law abiding citizens." (Your words)

I am a gun owner and an avid hunter. Over the years I have agreed with most of N.R.A.'s objectives, particularly your educational and training efforts, and your fundamental stance in favor of owning guns.

However, your broadside against Federal agents deeply offends my own sense of decency and honor; and it offends my concept of service to country. It indirectly slanders a wide array of government law enforcement officials, who are out there, day and night, laying their lives on the line for all of us.

You have not repudiated Mr. LaPierre's unwarranted attack. Therefore, I resign as a Life Member of N.R.A., said resignation to be effective upon your receipt of this letter. Please remove my name from your membership list.

Sincerely,
[signed] George Bush

Saint Ronny even said this:

Reagan received extended applause when answering a question about over-the-counter military weapons, such as the AK-47 assault rifle used to gun down five Stockton schoolchildren last month.

"I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense," he said. "But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home."

[BKDotCom]

There's a new stand up special on Netflix:  "David Cross - Make America Great Again."   Very political / very offensive / highly recommended.   He does a great routine on Trump and his supporters (also, gun-control, religion, etc).

[heironymouspasparagus]

You may be a moderate when it comes to other items, but when it comes to gun-control you are pretty much full on hard-right conservative.  I own three guns and not once have I been worried about them being taken.

However, the tell was when you indicated you were a lifetime NRA member.  Then the light went on.

St. Ronnie...I love it!  That's great.


And I have mentioned Lifetime Member NRA on numerous occasions.  And I have actually touched on that here before - I guess it could be considered hard right conservative - I am VERY much into what the RWRE  SAYS about gun control - they take their lead from me!  Probably beyond.  Lets encourage law abiding citizens to have guns and learn how to use them properly.  I feel as passionately about shooting sports as some people feel about other sports around here.   That does NOT mean everyone should have guns - we already have reasonable, common-sense laws in place - thousands of them.  That are not effectively nor consistently enforced.  How about showing we can enforce the laws we have before just creating more bureaucracy for bureaucracy sake.  How about addressing actual root causes before trying to impose on the rights of the people?  

And while we are at it, how about if Hillary stops lying about "gun violence".  When you, me, or pretty much everybody hears that phrase it means people killing others with guns.  It is intellectual dishonesty at it's "best" when she spews her BS about it.  She asserts "90 people a day die from gun violence in our country. That's 33,000 people a year."

The CDC publishes statistics on causes of death for all Americans. Here are the figures from their 2013 update:

   21,175 suicide by gun
   11,208 homicide by gun
   505 accidental discharge of firearms
   32,888 total deaths by firearm


How many of the 11,208 true gun violence deaths are caused by illegal drug related activities?  In the top 15 highest murder rate cities, with the largest amount of gang activity?   Most of them.   Root causes - why not address those first??  Drugs.  Mental health.  Those two items likely cover essentially all of the gun related deaths in this country.  (Suicide is a very serious mental health issue.)  Cure them and we would probably be as low as the rest of the world on gun deaths.  Maybe lower - 505 accidental discharges?  About like bathtub falls.  But those are both difficult problems that require actual thought and action.  Where "gun control" is a convenient, mindless sound bite - easily spewed - that gives people a warm fuzzy that "something" can actually be done without the true required investment.

One other data point that gets a lot of attention on a national level - AS IT SHOULD - is domestic violence.  Just over 1,600 women were killed in 2013 by domestic violence.  And while the reporting on it is highly biased as shown by their reporting of it - "the most common weapon used was a gun" - it was actually 53% killed by a firearm.  This is definitely a mental health issue - it takes one sick, pathetic, disgusting, SOB, whether male or female, to commit violence against their partner.  There is no excuse for it ever, and like killing someone drunk driving, I feel it should be a capital offense (another little 'right wing' characteristic of mine...?)


I am also very much that way about the 1st Amendment.  And all the others that mention "the people" in them.  Non-people amendments don't need 'help', they can take care of themselves.  That is "architecture" of the system.   And what takes it back away from the RWRE is things where "the people" are definitely affected, but the RWRE is out to get them on.  Like the Miranda event where police have to tell people they have certain rights or it cannot be used in court.  That is the antithesis of what right wing extremism is all about - even to the point of not just endorsing, but advocating torture.

I am neither extreme right, nor extreme left - I am extreme 90 degrees!!  I am an extreme moderate....!


If you haven't been concerned about your guns being taken, that's great.  No one should have to worry about it.  But that also shows they don't really mean that much to you one way or another.  Do you participate in any shooting sports?   Your interest and participation is certainly not at the level of one of our soccer fans here.  Or any of the various OU nutcases fans around the state!


Like I said before - 170 million gun owners not a problem.  Millions of them with AR styling.  Not a problem.   It is propagandized as a problem because "the light is better over here..."

[TulsaMoon]

Trump is Bat Sh%t crazy. Now Obama is the founder of ISIS? FOUNDER! AND he backed those words up. I can see people saying he created the vacuum that helped create ISIS, but he was the founding father of ISIS?

No faster way to get Hillary elected than to have someone like Trump run against her. The Dems must be beside themselves with pure joy at these latest comments.

Put the two Vice President candidates on a ticket together and then we have a winner.

wow, just plain and simple wow.

[Conan71]

The NRA is no real friend to the average law-abiding gun owner and have not been since they veered off course in 1977 toward politics.

They whipped up such a frenzy over "assault weapons" before/after Obama was elected the prices doubled virtually over night for the guns and for the most common ammo sizes.  None of this was ever based in reality.  All it did was cause artificial shortages and double prices for people who use this type of weapon for sporting and recreational purposes.

Why do they keep manufacturing crisis and pumping out non-starters?  It keeps their membership rolls very flush.  What would they be without their lobbying and advocacy for the average gun owner?  They have managed to stretch the truth and outright pull what they know are lies simply to get the sheeple to follow and to keep sending them money.

At one time I was close to joining the NRA.  That was before I read a letter from LaPierre addressed to President Obama which showed a complete lack of respect for the President and the office of the Presidency.  All LaPierre was doing was trying to flex his muscle in front of the NRA loyal while ruining a chance at any meaningful discussion with Obama or other Democrat leaders with his childishness.  I also started examining much closer the rhetoric coming from the NRA and realized they were full of smile.  The NRA is a clearly partisan association with no interest in finding middle ground because that isn't what makes them money.

[Conan71]

Trump is Bat Sh%t crazy. Now Obama is the founder of ISIS? FOUNDER! AND he backed those words up. I can see people saying he created the vacuum that helped create ISIS, but he was the founding father of ISIS?

No faster way to get Hillary elected than to have someone like Trump run against her. The Dems must be beside themselves with pure joy at these latest comments.

Put the two Vice President candidates on a ticket together and then we have a winner.

wow, just plain and simple wow.

It had been speculated for some time that Drumpf was nothing more than a foil for Hilarity.  Way back when he entered the race.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The NRA is no real friend to the average law-abiding gun owner and have not been since they veered off course in 1977 toward politics.

They whipped up such a frenzy over "assault weapons" before/after Obama was elected the prices doubled virtually over night for the guns and for the most common ammo sizes.  None of this was ever based in reality.  All it did was cause artificial shortages and double prices for people who use this type of weapon for sporting and recreational purposes.

Why do they keep manufacturing crisis and pumping out non-starters?  It keeps their membership rolls very flush.  What would they be without their lobbying and advocacy for the average gun owner?  They have managed to stretch the truth and outright pull what they know are lies simply to get the sheeple to follow and to keep sending them money.

Ya gotta fight crazy with crazy.  You know that.


Manufacturing crisis..?  Like the manufactured crisis of "gun violence" in America being caused by guns??  Talk about a classic example of "The Big Lie".  You have to be familiar with that - it's the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."  Like the extremist anti-gunners do.

And so much of the RWRE that they have driven YOU to be a 'recovering' Republican.  Your party was hijacked in the 80's.  Mine was hijacked in the 60's.

Maybe we should get together and start a party of reasonable people with measured, rational thought?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Trump is Bat Sh%t crazy. Now Obama is the founder of ISIS? FOUNDER! AND he backed those words up. I can see people saying he created the vacuum that helped create ISIS, but he was the founding father of ISIS?

wow, just plain and simple wow.

He didn't even create the vacuum - Saddam Hussein being eliminated created that particular vacuum.  And that was a morphing of the already existing Al Qaeda scheme.  Related to Taliban.  Which Reagan/Bush I supported in Afghanistan against Russia.  And before that the Iranian revolution in direct response to US CIA installation of puppet Shah of Iran.  And Israel taking over Palestine and so forth and on and on.  There is NO independent event or entity that started this - it is an ongoing reactionary evolution from the deep dark mists of time.

[Ed W]

Major gun legislation follows major blood letting over the last 80 years. The 1934 firearms act was a response to organized crime and attendant lawlessness. The 1968 GCA came about due to the Kennedy assasinations, and the Brady act followed the attempted assassination of President Reagan. Some violent act may yet galvanize the nation and bring another round of gun legislation. It's nearly inevitable. I'm wondering how "law abiding gun owners" will react when the public opinion shifts and the law shifts with it.

[Conan71]

Ya gotta fight crazy with crazy.  You know that.


Manufacturing crisis..?  Like the manufactured crisis of "gun violence" in America being caused by guns??  Talk about a classic example of "The Big Lie".  You have to be familiar with that - it's the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."  Like the extremist anti-gunners do.

And so much of the RWRE that they have driven YOU to be a 'recovering' Republican.  Your party was hijacked in the 80's.  Mine was hijacked in the 60's.

Maybe we should get together and start a party of reasonable people with measured, rational thought?

We've whipped the dead horse of "assault" weapons violence endlessly.  I believe Dback is the one that refers to it as beating the skeleton into fertilizer or something close to that.

One thing we've not done is expose the complete fallacy that an uber powerful Democrat like Hilarity or Obama can repeal the 2nd Amendment.  I don't see certain classes of weapons being legislated out in our lifetime.  If that was going to happen it would have happened from '08 to '10 when Obama had the muscle in the House and Senate.  The Supremes cannot repeal 2A, so that's complete fear-mongering that Hilarity would select a justice just to up-end 2A.  "Read my lips, not gonna happen!" (Dana Carvey finger wag).

That party already exists for reasonable people.  They are fielding Johnson and Weld as pretty reasonable candidates.  If people will look beyond the tired old saw that the Libertarian Party are a bunch of dope-smoking anarchists, there's a place for moderates, liberals, and conservatives.

[heironymouspasparagus]

We've whipped the dead horse of "assault" weapons violence endlessly.  I believe Dback is the one that refers to it as beating the skeleton into fertilizer or something close to that.

One thing we've not done is expose the complete fallacy that an uber powerful Democrat like Hilarity or Obama can repeal the 2nd Amendment.  I don't see certain classes of weapons being legislated out in our lifetime.  If that was going to happen it would have happened from '08 to '10 when Obama had the muscle in the House and Senate.  The Supremes cannot repeal 2A, so that's complete fear-mongering that Hilarity would select a justice just to up-end 2A.  "Read my lips, not gonna happen!" (Dana Carvey finger wag).

That party already exists for reasonable people.  They are fielding Johnson and Weld as pretty reasonable candidates.  If people will look beyond the tired old saw that the Libertarian Party are a bunch of dope-smoking anarchists, there's a place for moderates, liberals, and conservatives.

True.  None of them can repeal it - without a major imbalance like we have not had in a long time.  I have said that it ain't gonna happen anytime soon just because of where Congress and Judicial precedence are right now.  That's why I am not too worried about it...and said so.  Must remain vigilant.  Would like nothing better than for the NRA-ILA to become obsolete no longer needed and let them concentrate totally on their main goals - hunter/shooting training and firearm safety programs.



I am more than just a little curious - wondering why no one has brought up Hillary's "veiled threat" against Obama from 2008 here??  There is a missed opportunity for our die-hard Republicans to come back at the left in response to the frenzy on Trump's 2nd Amendment threat....

[Townsend]

538 forecast today (polls only)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Chance of winning:

Hillary Clinton
87.5%

Donald Trump
12.5%

Oklahoma's one of the few states that stays bright red no matter how you mess with the election forecast.  Trump would need to ride into Oklahoma and publically execute every Sooner Football player and their mothers to hurt his chances here.