Iron Gate

[rdj]

This comes down to the fact no one wants social service agencies in their area of investment, whether that be retail, industrial, office or residential.  If you run a social service agency and are forced to move you hope and pray you can find the least offensive option and make it work for the surrounding neighborhood. 

Other than placing another social service in the NW corner of the IDL where would you recommend placing this facility to accomplish meeting their goal of serving those hungry for an immediate meal and those needing groceries AND meeting the needs of a neighborhood that won't fight placing it there?

Also tell me which building in the NW corner of the IDL would work?  Let's say north of 1st St and west of Cheyenne while being inside the IDL.  If you go north or west of the IDL within that definition you are immediately in residential areas.

Edited to correct Cameron to Cheyenne.  Got my C's mixed up.

[cannon_fodder]

RDJ - I think they can move anywhere in the IDL. So long as it doesn't require a zoning change, the neighbors can be mad but I think they can go in. But, again, I cant fault people for NIMBY here. If they moved in next to just about anything, it will negatively effect occupancy/rent and property value.  Even if an owner has no problem with the situation, financially they are in a difficult spot.  You'll notice Sager didn't offer the 1st Street Lofts property... (that's a joke, a bad one)


Lets look at the bigger issue:

Iron Gate raises more $1,300,000 a year.
2013 Annual report: http://www.irongatetulsa.org/IronGate/assets/File/IG_AnnualReport2013.pdf

Tulsa Day Center does almost $4 million.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=9174#.VfGEsPZViko )

John 3:16 does $7.5 million a year.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=10102#.VfGFPvZViko

The Commuity Foodbank does $31mil a year.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=12139#.VfGFgfZViko

Tulsa Area United way does $25mil.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4590#.VfGFnfZViko

Add in Churches, the Tulsa Mental Health Association, the Dream Center, tribal and Indian programs, HUD, the VA, and other governmental programs...

Now, the Day Center and John 3:16 focus on the homeless (John 3:16 has some great youth programs too). Community Foodbank and the United Way do a ton of different things, that include the homeless and not. But for every dollar they don't allocate to that issue, a Church, other non-profit, or government agency does. That's a TON of money. And according to Charity Navigator, they do a good job (mostly four stars for those that are ranked!).

At the last count, Tulsa has just over 700 homeless people. The vast majority "situationally homeless" and ~90 "chronically homeless." A new teacher in Oklahoma makes $31,600. 700 teachers collectively make $22mil a year... working as trained college graduates.

By the numbers, it appears very likely that we spend more than that supporting the homeless population in Tulsa each year. And, of course, homeless doesn't mean "zero income," lazy, or worthless. So we are really spending that to augment the living situation of homeless people. You can get a two bedroom apartment in Tulsa for $600. 350 of those is $2.5 million a year. Homelessness over?  We must be doing it wrong. I know drug and mental health issues make it more complicated than that...  but, well, I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around the issues.

I'm not indicting the homeless people, the organizations/people helping, or people who think they don't need to help. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it, thinking aloud (metaphorically jerk!).  There has to be a better way.

[swake]

RDJ - I think they can move anywhere in the IDL. So long as it doesn't require a zoning change, the neighbors can be mad but I think they can go in. But, again, I cant fault people for NIMBY here. If they moved in next to just about anything, it will negatively effect occupancy/rent and property value.  Even if an owner has no problem with the situation, financially they are in a difficult spot.  You'll notice Sager didn't offer the 1st Street Lofts property... (that's a joke, a bad one)


Lets look at the bigger issue:

Iron Gate raises more $1,300,000 a year.
2013 Annual report: http://www.irongatetulsa.org/IronGate/assets/File/IG_AnnualReport2013.pdf

Tulsa Day Center does almost $4 million.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=9174#.VfGEsPZViko )

John 3:16 does $7.5 million a year.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=10102#.VfGFPvZViko

The Commuity Foodbank does $31mil a year.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=12139#.VfGFgfZViko

Tulsa Area United way does $25mil.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4590#.VfGFnfZViko

Add in Churches, the Tulsa Mental Health Association, the Dream Center, tribal and Indian programs, HUD, the VA, and other governmental programs...

Now, the Day Center and John 3:16 focus on the homeless (John 3:16 has some great youth programs too). Community Foodbank and the United Way do a ton of different things, that include the homeless and not. But for every dollar they don't allocate to that issue, a Church, other non-profit, or government agency does. That's a TON of money. And according to Charity Navigator, they do a good job (mostly four stars for those that are ranked!).

At the last count, Tulsa has just over 700 homeless people. The vast majority "situationally homeless" and ~90 "chronically homeless." A new teacher in Oklahoma makes $31,600. 700 teachers collectively make $22mil a year... working as trained college graduates.

By the numbers, it appears very likely that we spend more than that supporting the homeless population in Tulsa each year. And, of course, homeless doesn't mean "zero income," lazy, or worthless. So we are really spending that to augment the living situation of homeless people. You can get a two bedroom apartment in Tulsa for $600. 350 of those is $2.5 million a year. Homelessness over?  We must be doing it wrong. I know drug and mental health issues make it more complicated than that...  but, well, I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around the issues.

I'm not indicting the homeless people, the organizations/people helping, or people who think they don't need to help. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it, thinking aloud (metaphorically jerk!).  There has to be a better way.

Exactly.

It's far more expensive to support someone on the streets. It's more cost effective and much more humane to HOUSE them. Keep them safe, give them access to services to help them get better.

[AquaMan]

Well made points. However, I can think of two social service oriented operations, one at 3rd and Utica, and one at 28th & Harvard that have minimal effect on the surrounding neighborhoods. And there are many churches deep in neighborhoods that provide help to these same customers without much effect. Its the hard core 90 or so that represent what no one wants assembling in their business/residential neighborhood.

The reality is that is practically hopeless given the disparity of funding involved, (some state, some private, some probably federal), that these same funds could be repurposed to provide homes, food, education and training. Their fundamental missions vary.

[rdj]

Exactly.

It's far more expensive to support someone on the streets. It's more cost effective and much more humane to HOUSE them. Keep them safe, give them access to services to help them get better.

Great idea and one I completely agree with.

The Pearl District wants housing, right?  What if Iron Gate said, "you know what, you're right, this isn't the place for a soup kitchen.  Let's give a big chunk of our homeless clients a place to live.  Can we buy this land over here in the Pearl District and put in a 300 unit apartment complex with subsidized housing for homeless?"

At $50k a door that is about a $15MM investment in the Pearl District.

I would guarantee that gets the same level of push back the soup kitchen did.  See the small unit at Admiral & Yale that Conan has referenced for an example.  I lived in the Turner Park neighborhood at the time and a vocal minority fought that project with the same fear mongering used by other districts.

[cannon_fodder]

Im not sure RDJ. Push back for sure... But probably not the same level.

Aquaman: what social services are at 28th and Harvard?  I mean, I love the Colony... But I wouldn't call it social services. Unless you meant 28th Place - because the bike shop IS a social service.

[swake]

Great idea and one I completely agree with.

The Pearl District wants housing, right?  What if Iron Gate said, "you know what, you're right, this isn't the place for a soup kitchen.  Let's give a big chunk of our homeless clients a place to live.  Can we buy this land over here in the Pearl District and put in a 300 unit apartment complex with subsidized housing for homeless?"

At $50k a door that is about a $15MM investment in the Pearl District.

I would guarantee that gets the same level of push back the soup kitchen did.  See the small unit at Admiral & Yale that Conan has referenced for an example.  I lived in the Turner Park neighborhood at the time and a vocal minority fought that project with the same fear mongering used by other districts.

But that particular development has reportedly had NO impact on the area. That's kind of the point. Treat the homeless as human, give them a roof and food and access to medical and behavioral care and they will be healthier and less destructive to themselves and the areas around them.

If I was to choose a location it would be the Storey Wrecker site. It's right by OSU Medical and DHS. Put ~200 apartments there for the chronically homeless, drug addicted and people newly off the street and then smaller housing complexes around the city for the people in need of permanent housing like the disabled or stabilized mentally ill and then other housing complexes for people transitioning to normal housing from being homeless, kind of halfway houses once they have jobs and income but still aren't ready to live on their own.

[rdj]

Im not sure RDJ. Push back for sure... But probably not the same level.

Aquaman: what social services are at 28th and Harvard?  I mean, I love the Colony... But I wouldn't call it social services. Unless you meant 28th Place - because the bike shop IS a social service.

He may mean Family & Children's Services which is at about 24th & Harvard.

[AquaMan]

Yes, thank you. The same faces, the usual suspects milling around waiting for a variety of services from mental to substance abuse to food vouchers.

However, I have done some social work of sorts at the Colony.

[rdj]

But that particular development has reportedly had NO impact on the area. That's kind of the point. Treat the homeless as human, give them a roof and food and access to medical and behavioral care and they will be healthier and less destructive to themselves and the areas around them.

If I was to choose a location it would be the Storey Wrecker site. It's right by OSU Medical and DHS. Put ~200 apartments there for the chronically homeless, drug addicted and people newly off the street and then smaller housing complexes around the city for the people in need of permanent housing like the disabled or stabilized mentally ill and then other housing complexes for people transitioning to normal housing from being homeless, kind of halfway houses once they have jobs and income but still aren't ready to live on their own.

If you mean the Storey Wrecker site at Archer & the IDL the County as already spoken for that site.  They are probably the only landowner that can turn it in to anything and I'm told they've turned down offers.  Storey moved there in the early 70's, I believe, so 40+ years of storing wreck automobiles can't be good for the soil tests.

Why isn't providing a free meal and a referral to other services treating someone like a human?

An article in the Journal Record Tuesday talked about how the industrial use property owners are beginning to be squeezed out of downtown due to the property being too valuable.  If for-profit users can't make downtown work, how can a non-profit?

[rdj]

Im not sure RDJ. Push back for sure... But probably not the same level.

Aquaman: what social services are at 28th and Harvard?  I mean, I love the Colony... But I wouldn't call it social services. Unless you meant 28th Place - because the bike shop IS a social service.

Just to follow up on your first comment.  You don't think putting a development intended for homeless would have significant push back by the Pearl District?  Look how hard they fought a service that would only have homeless there for 8-10 hours a day.  Put these undesirables in their neighborhood twenty-fours a day and make it their home-base?  That push back might rival when ODOT tried to level Maple Ridge for the IDL.

[DTowner]

Exactly.

It's far more expensive to support someone on the streets. It's more cost effective and much more humane to HOUSE them. Keep them safe, give them access to services to help them get better.

That all sounds good, but to a large extent the problem with the chronic homeless is not a lack of resources, social services or beds in shelters (and there is a big difference between the temporary or situational homeless and the chronic homeless), the problem is that many chronic homeless choose to stay that way.  I don't mean that as they are making a rational well-thought out decision.  Instead, I mean that most chronic homeless suffer addiction/mental health issues and refuse treatment/services available to them.  With the deinstitutionalization by courts in the late 1970s and other changes in laws, no service provider can "put" them in a shelter or housing unless they want to and are willing to do so.  Unfortunately, as a result many of the service providers simply provide food, basic necessities and occasional temporary shelter to the chronic homeless without changing any of the underlying conditions causing the homelessness.

That is why I was disappointed that the Iron Gate plan lacked any effort to think anew and act anew.  Instead, it took the fixed location soup kitchen/food pantry concept it is operating and simply wanted to build it bigger.  The aphorism about giving a man a fish for a day versus teaching him to fish may be shopworn, but it carries a very simple truth.  We spend a lot of money to sustain the chronic homeless in their current condition without accomplishing much on the macro level to end their homelessness.  I don't have the answers, but it seems clear continuing to do the same thing on a larger scale is not likely to get us the results we want.

[TeeDub]

We can always try the Oklahoma City method.

http://www.ibtimes.com/homeless-bus-ticket-programs-across-nation-offer-little-accountability-poor-housing-2016812
For years, Oklahoma City tackled its homeless problem by handing out bus tickets to other cities to its down-and-out residents.

[AquaMan]

DT, Its their mission. Consider that they are charged with feeding, clothing, aiding the less fortunate. Not judging whether they are mentally ill, physically unfit, drug addicted or unwilling to learn or work. It is a biblical mission. Social work is a different mission that may have its origins in religion but is primarily a betterment effort. Thus Salvation Army and Iron Gate are saving souls and doing the Lord's work. Family and Children's Services and other quasi-government organizations are trying to manage these deficits and help rebuild broken lives.

That's what I mean by the difficulty of having organizations with different funding for their missions come together in a cohesive effort.

[rdj]

We can always try the Oklahoma City method.

http://www.ibtimes.com/homeless-bus-ticket-programs-across-nation-offer-little-accountability-poor-housing-2016812
For years, Oklahoma City tackled its homeless problem by handing out bus tickets to other cities to its down-and-out residents.

On the Chamber's recent trip to Nashville they were told Nashville interviews the homeless, finds where they have family and buys them a plane ticket to that city.  Cost about $150k a year.