Iron Gate

[Conan71]

So the location of where homeless people are fed is moved literally two to three blocks and everyone who has opposed any sort of oversight on their own development loses their sh!t? 

[davideinstein]

So the location of where homeless people are fed is moved literally two to three blocks and everyone who has opposed any sort of oversight on their own development loses their sh!t? 

Essentially.

[cannon_fodder]

So the location of where homeless people are fed is moved literally two to three blocks and everyone who has opposed any sort of oversight on their own development loses their sh!t? 

Not everyone, but some people. While I do chuckle at their hypocrisy, I can't blame the NIMBYism.

"Now that they've put that soup kitchen in, my apartments have all been leased, my commercial space leased out, foot traffic for retail shoppers is up, and it has doubled the property value in the neighborhood," said no one ever.

[Conan71]

Not everyone, but some people. While I do chuckle at their hypocrisy, I can't blame the NIMBYism.

"Now that they've put that soup kitchen in, my apartments have all been leased, my commercial space leased out, foot traffic for retail shoppers is up, and it has doubled the property value in the neighborhood," said no one ever.

The soup kitchen already exists in their neighborhood and people transit that area every day going to and from Iron Gate.  It's already in their back yard.  That's what lit me up about this. 

[cannon_fodder]

The soup kitchen already exists in their neighborhood and people transit that area every day going to and from Iron Gate.  It's already in their back yard.  That's what lit me up about this. 

It is in the same general area, yes. But just down the street and immediately between two buildings I own are two different things (I don't personally own those buildings, just an example). Particularly downtown, a few blocks away can make a huge difference (the difference between 2nd and Elgin and 1st and Lanson is probably $2mil per acre). I live near 31st and Harvard. I am near the payday loan place at that intersection. Just a blocks away. If they wanted to move right next door to me, it would be a significant change to me. I'm also a few blocks away from a tattoo parlor, a bar, a mechanics shop, etc. etc. etc.

Most of the commute to Iron Gate is coming from the homeless shelters around David L Moss, a few from other soup kitchens north and west of Iron Gate. Little, if any of the foot traffic to Iron Gate would currently go by this area. And few, if any, vagrants currently loiter around it. Iron Gate, where it now stands, has minimal impact on Elliot Nelsons new apartments, the new corporate HQ, or the planned development of the Nordam site. If you owned a stake in any of those, would you want a soup kitchen to move closer to you? Note, not a lot of new development is going in near the soup kitchens Brady.

I'm not arguing the merits of the placement and I'm certainly not criticizing the intent of Iron Gate - but if I lived, worked, or owned property at a location that was putting in a soup kitchen I would assume it would be a negative for the area.  Iron Gate will do all they can to mitigate it, and it might be fine. But I can't blame the stakeholders for being nervous.

[Conan71]

It is in the same general area, yes. But just down the street and immediately between two buildings I own are two different things (I don't personally own those buildings, just an example). Particularly downtown, a few blocks away can make a huge difference (the difference between 2nd and Elgin and 1st and Lanson is probably $2mil per acre). I live near 31st and Harvard. I am near the payday loan place at that intersection. Just a blocks away. If they wanted to move right next door to me, it would be a significant change to me. I'm also a few blocks away from a tattoo parlor, a bar, a mechanics shop, etc. etc. etc.

Most of the commute to Iron Gate is coming from the homeless shelters around David L Moss, a few from other soup kitchens north and west of Iron Gate. Little, if any of the foot traffic to Iron Gate would currently go by this area. And few, if any, vagrants currently loiter around it. Iron Gate, where it now stands, has minimal impact on Elliot Nelsons new apartments, the new corporate HQ, or the planned development of the Nordam site. If you owned a stake in any of those, would you want a soup kitchen to move closer to you? Note, not a lot of new development is going in near the soup kitchens Brady.

I'm not arguing the merits of the placement and I'm certainly not criticizing the intent of Iron Gate - but if I lived, worked, or owned property at a location that was putting in a soup kitchen I would assume it would be a negative for the area.  Iron Gate will do all they can to mitigate it, and it might be fine. But I can't blame the stakeholders for being nervous.

Homeless people walk up and down Elgin every day looking for day work from people loading out building materials at Home Depot.  So yes, they are already in the immediate area of the proposed location every day.  Iron Gate's existing location has not stopped anyone from investing in renovations in the immediate area nor along the corridor from the DL Moss, Day Center, bus station etc. that homeless travel by every day going to and from Iron Gate.  The present location also does not seem to have been a detriment to Ross Group wanting to renovate the Tulsa Club Building.

If anyone recalls, it was predicted the transitional living center at Admiral and Yale would be a detriment to nearby neighborhoods.  I've personally heard of no problems with the tenants.  Is it ideal to build a high end apartment complex or an upscale retail development adjacent to a soup kitchen?  Probably not.  I'm simply choking on the hypocrisy of developers who didn't want an overlay to dictate what they could do with their property and it appears some of those developers want to tell people behind another fully funded development they can't build near them. 

[AquaMan]

Pretty hard to escape transients within the IDL. It seems they are multiplying and expanding all over the city though. Even at 51st and Lewis in a huge intersection with multiple turn lanes and no really good mooching, I watched as a guy walked in and out of traffic with his story. Almost got hit twice.

No business or homeowner wants to be around them, but the reality is they are here and not going anywhere till the economy or treatment centers expand along with them. Or until the Gathering Place opens up. 

[cannon_fodder]

I cant' argue with anything you say Conan - but the point still stands: the vast majority of business owners, developer, customer, tenant, etc. do not want a soup kitchen to move next door to them. It's hard to think what a soup kitchen next to my office would do that benefits me or my clients. Hard to think what a soup kitchen next to my apartment would do to benefit me. Hard to imagine any property value going up because a soup kitchen moves next door.

Hence, NIMBY.

Not saying its right, just that it is.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Pretty hard to escape transients within the IDL. It seems they are multiplying and expanding all over the city though. Even at 51st and Lewis in a huge intersection with multiple turn lanes and no really good mooching, I watched as a guy walked in and out of traffic with his story. Almost got hit twice.

No business or homeowner wants to be around them, but the reality is they are here and not going anywhere till the economy or treatment centers expand along with them. Or until the Gathering Place opens up. 

There will always be homeless people. Always. Even in Utah where they are giving homes away with no requirement to quit drugs or alcohol, they still have homeless. Some just want zero rules. Others just cannot function on the most basic of level. A very small fraction want to live the survivalist lifestyle. Utah did however eliminate most chronic homelessness which is great and actually saves society a lot of money.

The economy is, according to Clinton and Obama, doing great and the DJIA is near it's all-time high a couple months ago. They say we've had half a decade of growth and less living under poverty now. If that is true, maybe this is as good as homelessness gets so I disagree that the number of needy will ever get much better.

Better Box Project in Tulsa is mimicking the Utah program to provide free housing for homeless but even after that, there will always be some. Hopefully people can realize the benefits of providing housing first without drug/alcohol mandates. They will mostly still be needy and utilize places like Iron Gate, but at least they will have a home and not be wandering around committing crimes and scaring people.

[Conan71]

Hard to think what a soup kitchen next to my apartment would do to benefit me.

Free meals?

[cannon_fodder]

Free meals?

No such thing. 

[Bamboo World]

Iron Gate's existing location has not stopped anyone from investing in renovations in the immediate area...

I've heard that Iron Gate was a negative for the developers trying to promote the 119 Downtown project a few years ago.  But I think their biggest obstacle was finding buyers at the high asking prices, not the proximity to Iron Gate.

To me, it seems as though there has been substantial development near Iron Gate:

Vandever Lofts - 1.75 blocks from Iron Gate
The Meridia in the Enterprise Building - 1.67 blocks from Iron Gate
Mid-Continent Tower - 1.53 blocks from Iron Gate
The Vault - 1.43 blocks from Iron Gate
Courtyard by Marriott in the Atlas Life Building - 1.39 blocks from Iron Gate
Philtower Lofts - 1.24 blocks from Iron Gate
Philcade Expansion - 1.07 blocks from Iron Gate

The Coliseum Apartments building is 2.40 blocks from the existing Iron Gate location and 0.90 block from the proposed location (1.50 blocks closer to the proposed location).
Jackson Technical HQ building is 2.27 blocks from the existing Iron Gate location and 1.19 blocks from the proposed location (1.08 blocks closer to the proposed location).

The existing Iron Gate location is 3.33 blocks from the proposed location.

[davideinstein]

A community is only as strong as its most vulnerable citizens.

[johrasephoenix]

As for 119 Downtown... the market has CLEARLY signaled that we're not ready for pricey downtown condos. It has also signaled that their is insatiable demand for quality downtown apartments.  Why do people keep trying to force condos?  That's the frailest part of any real estate market.  Plus American Resodential and River City clearly aren't losing money on apartments. I understand financing is easier if you prese but it's clearly not happening. Downtown just isn't ready yet for people to pre purchase downtown housing, especially at those insane price points. 

I understand why condos are necessary in Places like Boston and NYC where crazy land values make them the only feasible development project. But Tulsa is not at that point and hopefully never will be

[DowntownDan]

Pretty hard to escape transients within the IDL. It seems they are multiplying and expanding all over the city though. Even at 51st and Lewis in a huge intersection with multiple turn lanes and no really good mooching, I watched as a guy walked in and out of traffic with his story. Almost got hit twice.

No business or homeowner wants to be around them, but the reality is they are here and not going anywhere till the economy or treatment centers expand along with them. Or until the Gathering Place opens up. 

It's called living in a city.  If you want complete isolation from homeless, move to an affluent suburb in a big city that shields its citizens from reality.  Otherwise, this is life.