Iron Gate

[MostSeriousness]

The initial proposal (when they released it at an Iron Gate event) had a traffic study that said no risk in the area, with the recommendation of a traffic light at either 7th and Elgin or 7th and Kenosha (don't remember which). No risk would probably not need an additional light, and an additional light right there would be...fun

[AdamsHall]

So if I'm reading that right they'll be baiting homeless people to cross 7th street right where people are coming off of highway 75 at 60 MPH...

Those drivers are looking to merge...not looking for pedestrians.

Those using Iron Gate and driving will be turning into the new property...Carnac the Magnificent sees many collisions.

There's going to be some deaths occurring there.

This.  In particular, it will be very ugly in the morning.

[MostSeriousness]

Conflicting sites - The Frontier has four or so pegged as 'potentials' per some Open Records Act emails

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/iron-gate-receives-ok-to-build-at-7th-and-kenosha-but-records-show-nonprofit-worked-with-city-county-officials-for-months-to-secure-site-near-tulsa-jail/

[SXSW]

John 3:16 and the Day Center are both in this area.  Seems to make sense to keep it closer rather than further away from other entities which serve the homeless and down on their luck.

Sounds like Iron Gate may be moving to this area after all if their board approves it.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/county-commission-vote-would-let-iron-gate-relocate-to-land/article_c8aa4f9c-dafc-5629-8494-98a3ac2aa4eb.html

[cannon_fodder]

Commissioner John Smaligo opposed the deal though. He doesn't like the 99-year term of the lease, and has other fears, including what he says is the possibility the site could eventually become a marijuana dispensary.

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/after-arguments-pro-and-con-county-leaders-okay-site-where-iron-gate-could-expand

Does anyone know where that fear comes from?  Seems odd.  Even if there is some reason to think that's a dangerous and top of mind possibility, it's not like that would be the thing holding back development in the area. I must be missing something.

Or is the marijuana that much of a deep seeded fear?

[Conan71]

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/after-arguments-pro-and-con-county-leaders-okay-site-where-iron-gate-could-expand

Does anyone know where that fear comes from?  Seems odd.  Even if there is some reason to think that's a dangerous and top of mind possibility, it's not like that would be the thing holding back development in the area. I must be missing something.

Or is the marijuana that much of a deep seeded fear?

[DTowner]

The concern about it becoming a medical marijuana dispensary is odd, but if Smalligo is right about the 99 year lease automatically renewing, then this really is essentially the transfer of public property to a private entity under the guise of a "lease."

[MostSeriousness]

Isn't that subject just to it being after the 99 years? I imagine if the Jazz Depot continues its problems, the County could easily pull the plug on the lease. The same for this potential Iron Gate spot.

[cbs]

I imagine if the Jazz Depot continues its problems, the County could easily pull the plug on the lease.

Jazz Depot is having problems? Not surprised at all. Worst managed place I've ever been. I know not 1 but 2 friends who had booked & paid for their weddings which got canceled week-of due to mismanagement. Also absolutely impossible to communicate with.

[DTowner]

Isn't that subject just to it being after the 99 years? I imagine if the Jazz Depot continues its problems, the County could easily pull the plug on the lease. The same for this potential Iron Gate spot.

The differences here is, I assume, that this is a ground lease and Iron Gate will be responsible for building whatever building they will use on the site.  A 99-year ground lease in a commercial transaction is not uncommon.  I don't know how common it is for Tulsa County to grant 99-year ground leases, but I would think that is somewhat unusual.  Moreover, a 99-year ground lease in which two lease payments are made in the first 2 years and no payments are due thereafter really looks like a land sale disguised as a ground lease.  The fact the lease has, according to Smaligo, an automatic 99-year renewal term (making it effectively a 198-year lease) makes it look even more like a sale disguised as a lease.  The article says the County's lawyer signed off on the deal as being legal.  That may be so, and if it is, then there may be a significant loophole in the law.

[MostSeriousness]

Jazz Depot is having problems? Not surprised at all. Worst managed place I've ever been. I know not 1 but 2 friends who had booked & paid for their weddings which got canceled week-of due to mismanagement. Also absolutely impossible to communicate with.

Haven't seen anything recently, but they've been on the wrong side of the PR animal in the past few years with bad dealings, payment issues, etc.

[SXSW]

Jazz Depot is having problems? Not surprised at all. Worst managed place I've ever been. I know not 1 but 2 friends who had booked & paid for their weddings which got canceled week-of due to mismanagement. Also absolutely impossible to communicate with.

I hope one day Union Depot is turned back into a working train station and more people will be able to appreciate the Deco architecture.  The Jazz HOF never made much sense being there.

[AdamsHall]

I hope one day Union Depot is turned back into a working train station and more people will be able to appreciate the Deco architecture.  The Jazz HOF never made much sense being there.

Agreed.  That would be great.  Likewise, I have to believe the building would have been better used for another purpose.

[Conan71]

Agreed.  That would be great.  Likewise, I have to believe the building would have been better used for another purpose.

To put it in context, the train depot at one point was vacant for about 20 years and speculation was rampant it might be torn down.  Something is better than nothing in this case.  I suspect if it were managed better, it would seem to have a fitting place in the building.  I've been to events there and it is a really good event space.

[heironymouspasparagus]

How did I miss those great parties when I was young...??