Downtown Bus Loop

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Maybe this should go in PlaniTulsa & Urban Planning?

Concert-goers, restaurant patrons and bar-hoppers will have a new vehicle to transport them around downtown starting Sept. 4.

The Loop, a new private-public partnership between the city of Tulsa and downtown businesses, will run a circular route from the BOK Center through the Deco, Blue Dome and Brady Arts districts, said Debbie Ruggles, Tulsa Transit assistant general manager.

The bus will be in service from 5 p.m. until 2 a.m. Friday and Saturday nights at a cost of 25 cents, unless a patron brings a receipt from a downtown business, in which case the ride will be free, Ruggles said.

The city allocated $50,000 per year for the new bus, which will run a route similar to that of the Tulsa Downtown Trolley, Ruggles said.

The trolley, owned and operated by Old Urban Trolley Inc., will discontinue its downtown route at the end of this month. The trolley route through downtown was sponsored by downtown businesses and organizations at no cost to the city.

Old Urban Trolley will continue its other services, including transportation for weddings, proms, conventions, tours and other events, owner Shannon Terry-Dotson said.

An unveiling of the Loop bus will be held 1:30 p.m. Tuesday at the Cox Business Center. The bus will be on display, and the specific route will be revealed, Ruggles said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/tulsa-transit-to-unveil-new-bus-service-for-downtown-bar/article_c6e0b8d8-ab13-589f-a936-2cb8bdacfe75.html


Sad to see the old timey trolley go for just another city bus, even if it has a different paint scheme. I feel like that's not the way you're going to increase ridership. Will be interested to see the route.

Discuss.

[Ibanez]

I don't get the need for a bus. I have rarely if ever seen one of the trolley's full of passengers so I can't imagine that a larger vehicle is required. Even during Garthstravaganza I don't remember seeing the trolley full and my wife and I were downtown for 3 of those concerts. Of course we tend to walk everywhere so maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.

I would also think the trolley is cheaper to operate than a bus. This just seems like a good idea implemented poorly.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I don't get the need for a bus. I have rarely if ever seen one of the trolley's full of passengers so I can't imagine that a larger vehicle is required. Even during Garthstravaganza I don't remember seeing the trolley full and my wife and I were downtown for 3 of those concerts. Of course we tend to walk everywhere so maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.

I would also think the trolley is cheaper to operate than a bus. This just seems like a good idea implemented poorly.

I agree. I'm guessing it wasn't financially feasible for them anymore and the city stepped up to offer an alternate subsidized transportation ($.25/ride is cheap). Good that something will still be going but the trolley was so much nicer both for the atmosphere and the novelty. I enjoyed having it as an option and rode it on several occasions. I hope they bring it back eventually.

[DTowner]

Channel 6 ran a story in which they stated the bus would come by every 20 minutes, which cuts the current time in half (I believe).   That's a start, although I think they need to reduce that to every 10 minutes to really be successful.  In 20 minutes you can nearly walk from one end of downtown to the other.

I don't get why some are so in love with last century technology like a "trolley" - or worse, a fake trolley.  It is small, has uncomfortable seats and poor entrance/exit access.

Hopefully this will help build momentum towards ever better loop service.  A well-chosen route with enough buses to keep wait times short (10 minutes or less) could be a real draw and help avoid building more parking in The Brady/Blue Dome areas.

[Conan71]

Channel 6 ran a story in which they stated the bus would come by every 20 minutes, which cuts the current time in half (I believe).   That's a start, although I think they need to reduce that to every 10 minutes to really be successful.  In 20 minutes you can nearly walk from one end of downtown to the other.

I don't get why some are so in love with last century technology like a "trolley" - or worse, a fake trolley.  It is small, has uncomfortable seats and poor entrance/exit access.

Hopefully this will help build momentum towards ever better loop service.  A well-chosen route with enough buses to keep wait times short (10 minutes or less) could be a real draw and help avoid building more parking in The Brady/Blue Dome areas.

I personally wouldn't see myself using the bus unless it was pouring down rain.

[DowntownDan]

I guess I'm the only one whose never had a problem bar hopping or going to a ballgame or concert from opposite ends of downtown.  I've had drinks at McNellies or Fassler then walked to the BOK Center.  I've pubcrawled on foot from Hodge's Bend to Soundpony.  Our downtown isn't that big.  You can walk pretty much anywhere.  On an icy night maybe uber it if necessary or drink closer to your destination.  There's still enough parking on the northern end that you don't need to park at TCC to enjoy Blue Dome or Brady.  You can get anywhere on foot in about 5 minutes from the Central Parking garage which last I check still charges only $2 on regular nights and $5 for special events.  I always figured that this was why the trolley was lightly used.

[TeeDub]

I agree...  The few times I have been drinking downtown just walking was the preferred method.   Nothing is particularly far.

Plus with my luck it would have been some sort of crosstown route I stumbled onto.


I wonder if service was cancelled due to disinterest from the downtown businesses paying for it.

[Ibanez]

Channel 6 ran a story in which they stated the bus would come by every 20 minutes, which cuts the current time in half (I believe).   That's a start, although I think they need to reduce that to every 10 minutes to really be successful.  In 20 minutes you can nearly walk from one end of downtown to the other.

I don't get why some are so in love with last century technology like a "trolley" - or worse, a fake trolley.  It is small, has uncomfortable seats and poor entrance/exit access.

Hopefully this will help build momentum towards ever better loop service.  A well-chosen route with enough buses to keep wait times short (10 minutes or less) could be a real draw and help avoid building more parking in The Brady/Blue Dome areas.

That is exactly why we tend to walk everywhere. We normally stay at either the Hyatt of the Fairfield and just walk to wherever. We did try to hop on the trolley once outside The Tavern as it was starting to rain, but after waiting for almost 30 minutes we said to heck with it and just walked back to the Hyatt in the rain.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I don't get why some are so in love with last century technology like a "trolley" - or worse, a fake trolley.  It is small, has uncomfortable seats and poor entrance/exit access.

For the same reason we prefer Art Deco and Midcentury over plain newer corporate structures like One Place. For the same reason we pay significantly more to eat or drink at places like Valkyrie or the Vault. A trolley adds to the atmosphere of a quaint friendly little downtown and is inviting to get in as opposed to a big ugly city bus with its cold lighting which many people will not get on just for being a city bus.

Walking around downtown is nice and easy but when you're going with a group or meeting up, typically it's not a great option. We will probably just stick to uber and might try the bus if it's convenient.

[sgrizzle]

Every 20 minutes - FAIL
Starts at 5pm - FAIL

[DTowner]

For the same reason we prefer Art Deco and Midcentury over plain newer corporate structures like One Place. For the same reason we pay significantly more to eat or drink at places like Valkyrie or the Vault. A trolley adds to the atmosphere of a quaint friendly little downtown and is inviting to get in as opposed to a big ugly city bus with its cold lighting which many people will not get on just for being a city bus.

Walking around downtown is nice and easy but when you're going with a group or meeting up, typically it's not a great option. We will probably just stick to uber and might try the bus if it's convenient.

We obviously disagree on the trolley.  Old buildings/structures = interesting, charming and historical.  Old forms of transportation = old and outdated.  Steam trains are a novel bit of fun for a short excursion in a picturesque area, but I wouldn't want to take one to work every day. I rode the cable car in San Francisco with other tourists - once.  The locals ride the bus.  I will withhold judgment until I see the unveiling of the new bus(s) to be used, but I suspect they will be much improved over the cramped uncomfortable fake trolley/bus being replaced.

I also agree this is still not frequent enough or enough days/hours of operation.  Hopefully, this is a toe in the water for the city that will expand if people use it (or it gets Vision extension money).  At least the city is stepping in to pay where before the trolley was funded exclusively by the downtown businesses.  That in itself is a step in the right direction.

[DowntownDan]

The one thing that might help is the app where you can track it like uber so there'll be no standing around waiting for it.

[TheArtist]

We business owners are still going to be chipping in to pay for this new "trolley bus"  which will actually be cheaper to run than the one we have now.  If we continue to support it, the city will add a second bus to make shorter wait times.

This is a way to get something started and a way to help ameliorate the "aint enough parking downtown" complaints.  It's so interesting on here to hear some argue that it is good for this and that development to have parking then hear people complain about how nobody will use the bus cause its so easy to walk from one end of downtown to the next.  Nobody needs to walk downtown because there is so much parking.  Every development needs plenty of parking because nobody will walk and there is no transit.  You try to put in transit to lessen the need for every development to have so much parking, but then some argue there is not enough development downtown to support transit. Well, if you wait till there are enough people/developments before you put in the transit, those developments will put in lots of parking because there is no transit and then you will end up with no need for transit because nobody will be walking they will all just park where they want to go.  But if you put in the transit now, before the parking is too tight, people will complain that the trolleys are empty.  etc. etc. Oh, well.  

Again, this is a start. Nothing is going to be perfect at this stage of the game.  But it shows at least a starting commitment to "bend the curve" towards getting people used to parking in perhaps areas away from where they will eventually go, and to get them used to using transit.

We are going to have this similar situation when the BRT starts as well.  Low ridership, people still wanting to build parking.  

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Apparently the trolley business wants everyone to know this wasn't their choice and that their contract was abruptly canceled.

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/bus-route-taking-place-of-trolley-service-in-downtown-tulsa

[heironymouspasparagus]

I don't get the need for a bus. I have rarely if ever seen one of the trolley's full of passengers so I can't imagine that a larger vehicle is required. Even during Garthstravaganza I don't remember seeing the trolley full and my wife and I were downtown for 3 of those concerts. Of course we tend to walk everywhere so maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.

I would also think the trolley is cheaper to operate than a bus. This just seems like a good idea implemented poorly.

It is an odd puzzle - the need for a bus.  I have spent some time in Milwaukee and the mindset is very different there.  Even my mindset was different while there.  Theirs is a core downtown space very similar in size to Tulsa - I am using 1 mile by 1 mile as the measure to encompass most of what might be considered core downtown 'stuff'.  Tulsa has lower concentration of everything, especially as move south of about 6th street here.

There are a lot of bicycles, even in the winter if the snow situation isn't too bad.  But everybody walks!  Everybody!  Nobody even considers car, bus, or cab just to go 6 or 8 blocks or more (like going to lunch, etc).  Winter can be a little ragged, with winds between the buildings that I believe are even worse than here, but that doesn't stop the walking.  Evenings, we would usually walk from hotels west of river (near the mall) to the restaurants near the Public Market.  You can tell the tourists and the out of towners by the cars they drive.  Parking is available, but very 'tight' compared to Tulsa, with a lot of it around the interstate at the river - you drive into town, park, then don't move the car until ready to leave for the day.

Don't know why, but while there, you just don't even consider anything but walking, unless it is a blizzard.  Then you mostly stay put.  Downtown here for some reason, walking seems like it's more 'difficult'....even though I walk all the time everywhere else I stop....