Why is the BA so crappy?

[DowntownDan]

I can't find the article but I thought I read recently that the BA from Lewis to downtown is on the list to be taken down to grade and completely rebuilt.  Gonna be a headache but needed.

[saintnicster]

I can't find the article but I thought I read recently that the BA from Lewis to downtown is on the list to be taken down to grade and completely rebuilt.  Gonna be a headache but needed.

http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/new-construction-start-4-tulsa-highways/nmQQH/
Posted: 1:15 p.m. Thursday, May 28, 2015

project in Tulsa and Rogers County is scheduled to begin Friday, May 29.
This project will address deteriorating surface conditions in four heavily travelled areas:
·         I-44/US-412 near the SH-66 junction near Catoosa
·         US-169 between 21st St. South and 51st St. South
·         US-64/SH-51 (Broken Arrow Expressway) from the southeast corner of the Inner Dispersal Loop to near Lewis Avenue
·         I-244 from south of Arkansas River south to the US-75 junction (Red Fork split)
Crews will begin work on the I-44 and I-244 segments first and plan to start the US-64/SH-51 (Broken Arrow Expressway) section in July and the US-169 segment to follow.
All phases will involve various lane and possible ramp closures and drivers should plan ahead for significant delays in these corridors.
The overall project is expected to complete in early October, weather permitting.

LOL

[Townsend]

http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/new-construction-start-4-tulsa-highways/nmQQH/
Posted: 1:15 p.m. Thursday, May 28, 2015
LOL

I'm Jack's Complete Lack Of Surprise

[Markk]

I can't find the article but I thought I read recently that the BA from Lewis to downtown is on the list to be taken down to grade and completely rebuilt.  Gonna be a headache but needed.

Seems like the World had a story recently that said the delay in working on the SE leg of the IDL and the BA was due to the I44 work out by Catoosa being more involved than previously thought.  At least, that was the explanation ODOT offered.

[SXSW]

I can't find the article but I thought I read recently that the BA from Lewis to downtown is on the list to be taken down to grade and completely rebuilt.  Gonna be a headache but needed.

Wish we could eventually do what LandArchPoke proposed and take out the east leg of the IDL eliminating the huge interchange with the BA.  Also rebuilding the entire highway below grade from Peoria to Yale and relocating the rail line to the perimeter similar to what Denver did when they rebuilt I-25.  You add more workable stations for future commuter rail and the BA isn't such a barrier between midtown neighborhoods. 

[Conan71]

Returning from lunch this afternoon, I observed a crew doing a crude patch job on the WB 15th St. Bridge.  Certainly not improving the overall quality of that stretch of road.

[LandArchPoke]

I can't find the article but I thought I read recently that the BA from Lewis to downtown is on the list to be taken down to grade and completely rebuilt.  Gonna be a headache but needed.

They won't be rebuilding any of the BA in terms of changing whether it's at grade, above grade, or below grade. What they're going to do to these sections of the IDL is what they did to the other two, simply ripping up the current pavement and rebuilding it. So it will look and feel the same, just brand new pavement.

Seems like the World had a story recently that said the delay in working on the SE leg of the IDL and the BA was due to the I44 work out by Catoosa being more involved than previously thought.  At least, that was the explanation ODOT offered.

This is correct. They have delayed doing a temporary resurfacing of the BA. They plan to put a new layer on top of what is there - similar to what was just done on Highway 75 southbound between the River and the I-244 split. This is going to cost about $1 million. They will be coming back in in 2017-2018 to start tearing up the BA (south leg) and the east leg (75) through about 2022 to rebuild the entire road beds and every bridge for a total of over $80 million. 

[swake]

They won't be rebuilding any of the BA in terms of changing whether it's at grade, above grade, or below grade. What they're going to do to these sections of the IDL is what they did to the other two, simply ripping up the current pavement and rebuilding it. So it will look and feel the same, just brand new pavement.

This is correct. They have delayed doing a temporary resurfacing of the BA. They plan to put a new layer on top of what is there - similar to what was just done on Highway 75 southbound between the River and the I-244 split. This is going to cost about $1 million. They will be coming back in in 2017-2018 to start tearing up the BA (south leg) and the east leg (75) through about 2022 to rebuild the entire road beds and every bridge for a total of over $80 million. 

I hope they are planning to use concrete. The road simply has too much traffic for asphalt to last.

[LandArchPoke]

I hope they are planning to use concrete. The road simply has too much traffic for asphalt to last.

The temporary repaving that will be occurring this year will be asphalt. However, that is a valid question in terms of what do they plan to use during the reconstruction that is more permanent in the coming years. I would hope the plan is to use concrete, but you never know.

[Markk]

The temporary repaving that will be occurring this year will be asphalt. However, that is a valid question in terms of what do they plan to use during the reconstruction that is more permanent in the coming years. I would hope the plan is to use concrete, but you never know.

My guess is they will use papier mache.

I guess the ultimate answer to the question originally posed is, "because we are happy to build roads, but will fight to the death any attempt to adequately maintain them".

[DTowner]

I drive this every day and the BA between Lewis and downtown is the worst stretch of road I've driven on since I lived in Washington DC during the Marion Barry era.  This road is simply worn out.  While it's been bad for a while, but this past winter it simply began crumbling with giant pot holes routinely opening up.  After a week or so, some would get filled with asphalt (into a concrete road, so it was guaranteed not to last very long).  It was so strange to me why some holes would get patched while other holes nearby would not.  Then one day I saw how they were patching the holes.  A truck with asphalt was parked on the shoulder and two workers would wait with shovels full of hot asphalt.  When a short break in traffic came, they would dart out into the road and quickly throw a shovel full in a hole and then run back to the shoulder to repeat this feat of daring.  I'm guessing that is not an OSHA approved method of road work, not to mention it defies all common sense and desire to live a long healthy life.  I assume the workers simply didn't have the nerve to fill all the holes on any given day and would give up after filling the biggest holes. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

The temporary repaving that will be occurring this year will be asphalt. However, that is a valid question in terms of what do they plan to use during the reconstruction that is more permanent in the coming years. I would hope the plan is to use concrete, but you never know.

Not as long as we have as much oil industry here.  We will always 'choose' oily rock over doing it correctly.

[TheArtist]

Frankly I really don't care. Let it crumble. I don't know why anyone else would care either. Get people off the highways, slow people down on the roadways, lets create good infill development, if that causes congestion, alleviate it by getting good transit going. Lets start bending the curve away from a sprawling auto centric culture to a transit/pedestrian friendly one.

[Townsend]

Frankly I really don't care. Let it crumble. I don't know why anyone else would care either. Get people off the highways, slow people down on the roadways, lets create good infill development, if that causes congestion, alleviate it by getting good transit going. Lets start bending the curve away from a sprawling auto centric culture to a transit/pedestrian friendly one.

I'm with Artist on this one.  Let it get so bad people stop using it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Frankly I really don't care. Let it crumble. I don't know why anyone else would care either. Get people off the highways, slow people down on the roadways, lets create good infill development, if that causes congestion, alleviate it by getting good transit going. Lets start bending the curve away from a sprawling auto centric culture to a transit/pedestrian friendly one.

I can remember when my Dad had to travel from north Harvard, about Jasper, to downtown.  Took the trolley several days each week.  We would go downtown on the trolley, too.  I bet if ya dig up the grass median, the tracks or at least the rail bed would still be there.

Then to 36th and Harvard (out in the country - very rural) - driving downtown - still no BA.  Took much longer.  Then out to the suburbs near 31st and Yale - still before BA.  Onerous drive.  Believe it or not, the BA cut his drive time quite a bit.  Even up until he retired. 

BUT if the trolley would have been available, he would have taken it and it would have been much more convenient for him and a lot of people!!  Thanks, GM for shutting down trolleys and viable bus systems for us nationwide....!