Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[heironymouspasparagus]

The river is the biggest natural asset this city has to make a name for itself.  If you want to be a city that visitors report good things about, aesthetics are big.  If you can take a visitor to riverparks where they can see boating, and fishing, and other fun events, with a cool urban background, and without having to drive miles and miles away to a lake, it'll be a game changer.  If the people don't care about that because heaven forbid we spend some money collectively to improve our image and quality of life, we deserve to lose out to OKC, Dallas, KC, Memphis, and even Wichita and Little Rock which I've been hearing good things about.  We'll remain a regional hub that's over-reliant on a few oil and gas companies that most likely will be moving in the next 5-10 years.  I just don't get the small-mindedness of the majority of this city that we couldn't just get a good river plan passed by itself without tying it to a dumb regressive permanent sales tax for cops and fireman, which should be paid from other sources.  It's bush league and it infuriates me that our city is going to fall further and further behind as a destination city.  I've had no choice but to join in and laugh when out of town visitors see what we call a river.  Yep, this sand bed is our city's pride and joy.

I mentioned Wichita back a ways...they have a nice little river thing going - and for a small part of the year, it too has water in it - the rest of the time it is a sandbar!   Certainly doesn't stop anyone from enjoying what they do have, any more than the Tulsa version of the same thing (on the same river!) doesn't stop people from enjoying all that is on the Tulsa portion.

The biggest missing component for Tulsa is NOT whether there is water for another 3 or 4 months a year, but the much grander, statewide issue of what Failin' and the Clown Show are doing to Oklahoma internally and visibly to the rest of the world!  When we cut $200 million from education....then cut another $60 million from education...then in the last few weeks cut another $45 million from education....  THAT is the big outside view of this state that counts.  Along with all the other Clown Show idiocies that get us into the national headlines in a bad way several times a year.

Outside visitors to Wichita may be giggling about their river a little bit, too, but that is NOT what is making any big impact on their development!  There is SOOO much more than just water in the Arkansas that is holding Oklahoma in general back...

As for comparing to OKC and Dallas...well, ya haven't spent much time there, have ya?  Or there would not be any "losing out" words.

Now, if you were comparing to Ft Worth...then you might make a small case.  But not much of one...


Just like with rebuilding the state Capital building - if we are gonna spend that kind of money, we could have a Burj Kalifa as an attraction...and have a REAL draw to the town.  If it weren't for all the earthquakes that would bring it down!

[Conan71]

I mentioned Wichita back a ways...they have a nice little river thing going - and for a small part of the year, it too has water in it - the rest of the time it is a sandbar!   Certainly doesn't stop anyone from enjoying what they do have, any more than the Tulsa version of the same thing (on the same river!) doesn't stop people from enjoying all that is on the Tulsa portion.

Wichita also has the "Little Arkansas" which is a canal that meanders along the west side of their downtown area.  Much like we could have done by uncovering Elm Creek.

I would hope the next transportation package is more focused on transit specifically the downtown hub and a starter streetcar line from downtown to TU.  

Punted for another 15 years if this passes.  It's a shame that any of the innovative ideas left on the cutting room floor are basically not going to happen for 15 years.

Same old Tulsa.  I'd love to see what would have happened with a mayor who is much more progressive in terms of development and not a dim-wit from the GOB network.  My honest feeling is he mortgaged the tax payers for $272M to get the endorsements of the FOP and fire fighters for this next election because he was too afraid of a perceived tax increase.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Wichita also has the "Little Arkansas" which is a canal that meanders along the west side of their downtown area.  Much like we could have done by uncovering Elm Creek.

That's the part I am talking about - it is very nice.  And of the half dozen times I have been there in the last couple of  years, only once did it have water enough to be considered "full".  Even with sand, it is a nice area and we always make it a point to walk over to Gander Mountain if it isn't too cold.  Then we drive....

Also, always interesting to see the Tesla charging station on I-35.  I heard the rumor that it was located specifically for one of the granddaughters of the founder of Charles Machine Works (Ditch Witch) to keep her Tesla charged!


I have talked about canals before - I REALLY wish we would get off this river nonsense and make a system of canals!!  Would be better than Venice, CA and might even get some semblance of Venice, IT.

[Conan71]

That's the part I am talking about - it is very nice.  And of the half dozen times I have been there in the last couple of  years, only once did it have water enough to be considered "full".  Even with sand, it is a nice area and we always make it a point to walk over to Gander Mountain if it isn't too cold.  Then we drive....

Also, always interesting to see the Tesla charging station on I-35.  I heard the rumor that it was located specifically for one of the granddaughters of the founder of Charles Machine Works (Ditch Witch) to keep her Tesla charged!


I have talked about canals before - I REALLY wish we would get off this river nonsense and make a system of canals!!  Would be better than Venice, CA and might even get some semblance of Venice, IT.

Any time I've been there, it had sufficient water for a rowing regatta which is held the first weekend of November every year.  No idea if they have gates to make sure there is water then or not, but there weren't sand bars we had to avoid.  Perhaps the sand bars are further downstream.  Typically, that is not high rainy season and all the snow run-off from the previous winter is long gone.  I believe the Wichita Rowing Club uses that waterway for practice.

[PonderInc]

So the transit hub and east-west rapid line was removed.  It was in the morning draft and not in the final draft.  How predictable. That was kind of a big deal and relatively cheap (relative to some of the other major projects).  The point of the east-west rapid line was to encourage housing and commerce along 11th Street (Route 66) and to attract younger workers who studys consistently show want to live in cities without reliance on cars.  That's the kind of broad visionary idea that Visions was supposed to be about.  Things that are expected to have domino effects after a citywide investment.  Not just another exhibit at the zoo.

"Transit Infrastructure (including East-West Bus Rapid Transit, Downtown Circulator, Transporation Hub)
$25,000,000"

It wasn't removed, it was moved.  Look up at the top of the page.  The final draft includes a dedicated tax that is expected to generate $57 million for transit over the next 15 years.  This is huge.  We've been talking about the need for a dedicated funding source for transit for years.  This dedicated funding can be used for both capital and operations.  So, I'm not sure exactly how this will break out, but it sure opens a lot of doors.  

Thank Blake for his passionate and effective support for transit.

[DowntownDan]

It wasn't removed, it was moved.  Look up at the top of the page.  The final draft includes a dedicated tax that is expected to generate $57 million for transit over the next 15 years.  This is huge.  We've been talking about the need for a dedicated funding source for transit for years.  This dedicated funding can be used for both capital and operations.  So, I'm not sure exactly how this will break out, but it sure opens a lot of doors.  

Thank Blake for his passionate and effective support for transit.

Thanks, I feel better now.  I really hope it includes the East-West rapid transit line.  It could be a game changer if implemented as it's been described to me.

[swake]

Thanks, I feel better now.  I really hope it includes the East-West rapid transit line.  It could be a game changer if implemented as it's been described to me.

It would be really nice if cities could levy a gas tax. 3 cents to streets and 1 cent to transit.

[PonderInc]

Yeah. Screw those south Tulsa people. Never mind that the city approved 3,000 apartments and three hospitals on a f'ing two lane country road.

I agree that this sucks.  I would not have approved those developments without a transportation/mobility plan and a Vehicle Miles Traveled assessment.  Unfortunately, Tulsa doesn't plan, we build. And then we say "Oh crap.  Congestion." And then we build more stuff we can't afford.  And then we say "Oh crap, the roads suck."  And then we allocate a billion dollars for road maintenance and improvements.  And then a few years later, it's not enough.

Guess what?  None of those 3,000 apartments generates sales tax... which, sadly, is the golden egg that pays for the roads that the residents depend on... because driving is our only option.  And we have a long tradition of separating residential from commercial, and designing everything for cars.  So every resident has to drive to do everything.  Yes.  This sucks.

This is why it's critical that land use planning and transportation planning work hand in hand.  ("Plan" is an important word. We don't do it.)  This is why mixed-use, walkable development needs to become our standard.  This is why transit connectivity matters so damn much.  If people can live in a walkable, mixed use-area where they can meet their daily needs on foot, you can take a crap-load of cars off the street.  Then if you can connect major employment centers with these walkable pods via transit and bike lanes, you can take even more cars off the street.

We are so far behind the curve on this that Tulsans think it's science fiction.  It's not. It' happening all over the country in cities big and small.  Conservative and liberal. It's been happening for the past 20 years... everywhere but here.

We need to catch up.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Any time I've been there, it had sufficient water for a rowing regatta which is held the first weekend of November every year.  No idea if they have gates to make sure there is water then or not, but there weren't sand bars we had to avoid.  Perhaps the sand bars are further downstream.  Typically, that is not high rainy season and all the snow run-off from the previous winter is long gone.  I believe the Wichita Rowing Club uses that waterway for practice.

This last year was particularly wet...I probably got the sand/water count off for 2015 - I think there were two trips (out of 3 total) before Sep where there was water in the river - haven't been since, so Nov should still be pretty wet, since there has been a lot of rain.  The other visits were going back 3 years or so.

[dsjeffries]

So the transit hub and east-west rapid line was removed.  It was in the morning draft and not in the final draft.  How predictable. That was kind of a big deal and relatively cheap (relative to some of the other major projects).  The point of the east-west rapid line was to encourage housing and commerce along 11th Street (Route 66) and to attract younger workers who studys consistently show want to live in cities without reliance on cars.  That's the kind of broad visionary idea that Visions was supposed to be about.  Things that are expected to have domino effects after a citywide investment.  Not just another exhibit at the zoo.

"Transit Infrastructure (including East-West Bus Rapid Transit, Downtown Circulator, Transporation Hub)
$25,000,000"

The final package includes $57,000,000 for transit, which will fund the Peoria BRT, Route 66 (11th St) BRT, Councilor Ewing's Center of the Universe transit hub in downtown, and the downtown/midtown circulator. It will also increase frequency on existing routes by 50%, extend evening service, improve Saturday service and introduce Sunday service for the first time in Tulsa Transit's history. It's a huge watershed moment for transit in Tulsa. It's the proposal most likely to truly transform Tulsa, from the way we get around, access to jobs, and the way our city is built. It also creates new opportunities for revitalization and infill development in neighborhoods near the new BRT lines.

[Townsend]

If only the public safety portion passes, how long until a new plan can be brought forward?

[Conan71]

If only the public safety portion passes, how long until a new plan can be brought forward?

I would think they would have time to get it on the November ballot.

[DowntownDan]

The final package includes $57,000,000 for transit, which will fund the Peoria BRT, Route 66 (11th St) BRT, Councilor Ewing's Center of the Universe transit hub in downtown, and the downtown/midtown circulator. It will also increase frequency on existing routes by 50%, extend evening service, improve Saturday service and introduce Sunday service for the first time in Tulsa Transit's history. It's a huge watershed moment for transit in Tulsa. It's the proposal most likely to truly transform Tulsa, from the way we get around, access to jobs, and the way our city is built. It also creates new opportunities for revitalization and infill development in neighborhoods near the new BRT lines.

Great!  Hope it ushers in some changes on how we operate as a city transportation wise.

[Conan71]

The final package includes $57,000,000 for transit, which will fund the Peoria BRT, Route 66 (11th St) BRT, Councilor Ewing's Center of the Universe transit hub in downtown, and the downtown/midtown circulator. It will also increase frequency on existing routes by 50%, extend evening service, improve Saturday service and introduce Sunday service for the first time in Tulsa Transit's history. It's a huge watershed moment for transit in Tulsa. It's the proposal most likely to truly transform Tulsa, from the way we get around, access to jobs, and the way our city is built. It also creates new opportunities for revitalization and infill development in neighborhoods near the new BRT lines.

I'm less upset with it knowing this is still in there.

[Hoss]

That's the part I am talking about - it is very nice.  And of the half dozen times I have been there in the last couple of  years, only once did it have water enough to be considered "full".  Even with sand, it is a nice area and we always make it a point to walk over to Gander Mountain if it isn't too cold.  Then we drive....

Also, always interesting to see the Tesla charging station on I-35.  I heard the rumor that it was located specifically for one of the granddaughters of the founder of Charles Machine Works (Ditch Witch) to keep her Tesla charged!


I have talked about canals before - I REALLY wish we would get off this river nonsense and make a system of canals!!  Would be better than Venice, CA and might even get some semblance of Venice, IT.

I should have taken a picture of this last weekend, but I went on a weekend 'getaway' to KC.  Our first stop consisted of the free Boulevard Brewery tour.  I was surprised to see in the back parking lot a bunch of charging stations ( I remember seeing 'EC' painted on the ground and the terminals ).  I thought 'wow, MO isn't exactly California, so I was kind of surprised.

I've always said that if work took me away to a different location, Kansas City would be OK with me.  I did hard time in Texas (3 years in Houston) but the times I've visited KC I've thoroughly enjoyed.  If I had to transfer for a job, and had that option, I'd take it in a minute.