Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[RecycleMichael]

The number quoted was 1,850 jobs, not 18,500.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/economic-impact-study-shows-big-possibilities-for-vision-s-river/article_5ef0c40d-b2cd-5946-8bc9-6eca158dce90.html

[swake]

I'd love to see where those numbers come from. If you want water in the river because it looks pretty, fine. But the economic development angle baffles me. This will not create a waterfront with tons of land ready to be developed - there just isn't much land along the stretches of the river that will be "filled" with water that is available to be developed.

18,000 jobs? Lets look at our current employers...

8000 @ St. Francis Health System
3000 @ The Port of Catoosa
2000 @ BOK
1000 @ Bama Pie
820 @ Direct TV
700 @ Williams Employees in Tulsa
500 @ Helmrich and Payne
500 @ Creek Nation
400 @ EMSA
350 @ Linde
300 @ Goodwill Industries
250 @ Pennwell
250 @ Ramsey Winch
225 @ Spartan
200 @ Pepsi Bottling

So we can get rid of all of those companies and just build two dams?  Who knew! I say we build 20 dams and add 180,000 jobs!

Ridiculous.

There's a lot of land being opened up on the east side of Riverside south of 81st. A big piece has been cleared in the last couple of weeks south of the apartment complex across the street from the casino. The old mobile home park south of there is also for sale. Both plots of land extend from Riverside over to Lewis and between the two that's well over a half a mile of land riverfront available from 84th to the Southwoods location at 91st. Then there's another half a mile of riverfront land actually on the water south of 101st to where the dam would be located. 

Then of course there's the concrete plant and city land at 21st on the west bank.

[cannon_fodder]

There's a lot of land being opened up on the east side of Riverside south of 81st.

The giant parking lot is owned by the Creek Nation, and it's not on the river.

A big piece has been cleared in the last couple of weeks south of the apartment complex across the street from the casino.

That property is owned by the City of Tulsa is is storm water collection, and is also separated from the river by Creek Nation land.

The old mobile home park south of there is also for sale. Both plots of land extend from Riverside over to Lewis and between the two that's well over a half a mile of land riverfront available from 84th to the Southwoods location at 91st.

The property isn't on the river, is separated from the River by Creek Nation Land, doesn't have access to Riverside Drive, and doesn't abut Lewis (it has access easements over Little Joe Creek through other peoples land). 19.5 acres that has been a mobile home park since 1970 and is sandwiched between "affordable" apartments, run down commercial, and an Indian Casino.  It is currently valued at $100k an acre. I don't see the value or development of that land exceeding $100million because there is water in a river just on the other side of the casino.

Then there's another half a mile of riverfront land actually on the water south of 101st to where the dam would be located.  

The dam is supposed to go in at 103rd street. There is very little land between 101st and 103rd street - 2 acres maybe?

Then of course there's the concrete plant and city land at 21st on the west bank.

Which has had "water in the river" for 40 years and still hasn't been developed.

The water pool doesn't extend a full three miles up stream. By 71st street, it's played out. You can't build multi-story near Jone's Riverside Airport - and most of the land there is owned by either the Creek's or the Tulsa Airport Improvement Trusts anyway.  Redoing Zink dam, while needed and I support, I don't expect to bring new development by knocking down the refinery, plowing under parkland, or doing what the concrete plant could have done at anytime in the last few decades.

I think you're proving my point. Other than park land, land that has been on a portion of the river fulled with water for decades, Jenks land, and Creek Nation land... there isn't really land in Tulsa that can be developed to take advantage of water in the river.  I'm not trying to be a nay sayer, I[m trying to be pragmatic. I just don't see it.

[Vision 2025]

The Proposed ST/Jenks dam will back water to or just north of 71st (depends on the flow rate) which will I believe will make the SW corner of 71st and the River quite desirable. 

Of course someone is going to say what about the sludge drying facilities there... so from my observation, the Belt Filter Press Building (large masonry structure in the back) is not an issue and the storage beds (old gravity drying beds) can be relocated South of the Press Building and covered (like Wichita KS did with theirs in the middle of town, along with active odor control to their entire treatment plant) so the dried sludge doesn't rehydrate and generate odors (although it is not anything like raw sewage) at reasonable cost and the 71st frontage along with the river frontage then becomes available for appropriate development.  All without adverse, and likely positive, impact to Turkey Mountain and the proposed new west bank trail from TM to Jenks.   

[Conan71]

The Proposed ST/Jenks dam will back water to or just north of 71st (depends on the flow rate) which will I believe will make the SW corner of 71st and the River quite desirable. 

Of course someone is going to say what about the sludge drying facilities there... so from my observation, the Belt Filter Press Building (large masonry structure in the back) is not an issue and the storage beds (old gravity drying beds) can be relocated South of the Press Building and covered (like Wichita KS did with theirs in the middle of town, along with active odor control to their entire treatment plant) so the dried sludge doesn't rehydrate and generate odors (although it is not anything like raw sewage) at reasonable cost and the 71st frontage along with the river frontage then becomes available for appropriate development.  All without adverse, and likely positive, impact to Turkey Mountain and the proposed new west bank trail from TM to Jenks.   

I thought the west bank trail was cut from the renewal package, did it not get cut after all?

[Vision 2025]

I thought the west bank trail was cut from the renewal package, did it not get cut after all?

You are correct, unfortunately the majority of trails once included were removed however it is still "proposed" just not funded in this package.

[Conan71]

You are correct, unfortunately the majority of trails once included were removed however it is still "proposed" just not funded in this package.

That was one part I really hoped would make it to the package.  There's a whole lot of land along that west bank from 71st to Riverwalk Crossing which could be a good mix of park and development.

[BuiltRight]

I'm not sure if these video has been posted here before, but i was at a luncheon with GT Bynum today and he was talking about the River Development part of the Vision Package. he told us that the renderings of the dams are accurate, they already have 60% complete drawings. The Rendering of the pedistrian bridge at zink dam is just a concept but money in included in the package to replace the old bridge. Just thought I would share.

https://vimeo.com/146306248

[Townsend]

It's funny how quickly I perceive Williams Leaving Oklahoma as truth

Anything showing a positive for Tulsa is a "I'll wait until I see it before I believe it."

[AquaMan]

The number quoted was 1,850 jobs, not 18,500.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/economic-impact-study-shows-big-possibilities-for-vision-s-river/article_5ef0c40d-b2cd-5946-8bc9-6eca158dce90.html

interesting. The printed material says 1850. Believable if not provable. I no longer see the version of the tv ad that touted 18500 jobs. The later version is not specific at all.
The great thing about print is once it's on paper you can't easily alter it.

[cannon_fodder]

The Proposed ST/Jenks dam will back water to or just north of 71st (depends on the flow rate) which will I believe will make the SW corner of 71st and the River quite desirable. 

I agree that the land there could be developed. Access is somewhat difficult, the current facility would have to be moved, and is an abandoned oil well seeping that would need to be addressed - but it is available land on the river in a location that would not draw objection from Turkey users, park lovers, or the airport.

However --- stating that the river will have water in it at that location is not really accurate. It might during high flow, but not really much more on average than it does now. Unless the design and study commissioned is not accurate. Note the distinct lack of water in the river at 71st street in the rendering.


http://riverprojectstulsa.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/4%20South%20Tulsa%20Jenks.pdf

I greatly respect your input, but it seems very dubious to argue that there is going to be tens of millions of dollars worth of investment because the river at that location now has a sliver more water on the other side of the bank.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's funny how quickly I perceive Williams Leaving Oklahoma as truth

Anything showing a positive for Tulsa is a "I'll wait until I see it before I believe it."

Not funny, "Hah, hah...". 

Funny like, "Wanna sit in a corner and whimper about how ridiculous this has become..."

[godboko71]

interesting. The printed material says 1850. Believable if not provable. I no longer see the version of the tv ad that touted 18500 jobs. The later version is not specific at all.
The great thing about print is once it's on paper you can't easily alter it.

I saw that TV ad too, you are not alone or crazy (bad memory.)

[AquaMan]

Thanks. I took you on a float trip once didn't I?

[godboko71]

Thanks. I took you on a float trip once didn't I?

No never did get to make one of your trips you did some writing for a project that never really took off. Might have to dust it off again.