Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[davideinstein]

I'm voting on 2 and 3 only.  I won't be subsidizing a service that is already supposed to be built into the budget to begin with.  I understand it would be nice to get emergency services up to snuff, but they keep asking for it via a sales tax.  Has to be a better way.

State law requires that is what I was told.

[cannon_fodder]

State law requires that is what I was told.

I don't know about that specifically, but Oklahoma is among the most restrictive states in the Union when it comes to local government. What OKC says goes for many, many things. From oil and gas wells in city limits to taxation. Small government, yay!

The  Oklahoma legislature reviewed the problem of municipal funding 5 years ago and concluded it significantly held down cities and towns, created unreliable revenue streams, manipulated the development market, and was inefficient. They suggested 13 changes, including giving cities the option of using other revenue streams to fund general operations. So far as I could tell, nothing was changed.

The study:

http://www.okhouse.gov/Documents/MunicipalFinanceTaskForceReport.pdf

[heironymouspasparagus]

I don't know about that specifically, but Oklahoma is among the most restrictive states in the Union when it comes to local government. What OKC says goes for many, many things. From oil and gas wells in city limits to taxation. Small government, yay!

The  Oklahoma legislature reviewed the problem of municipal funding 5 years ago and concluded it significantly held down cities and towns, created unreliable revenue streams, manipulated the development market, and was inefficient. They suggested 13 changes, including giving cities the option of using other revenue streams to fund general operations. So far as I could tell, nothing was changed.

The study:

http://www.okhouse.gov/Documents/MunicipalFinanceTaskForceReport.pdf

Can't have any of that....eliminates too many opportunities to scoop a little cash off the top for themselves.

[davideinstein]

Passed.

[SXSW]

Now that this has passed, what is the timeline for the major projects?

[PonderInc]

My understanding was that a lot of the big projects were planning to use bonds so they could get started almost immediately.  I know for a fact that Tulsa Transit was planning to do this, as well as Gilcrease. Pretty sure they were wanting to do that for the dams too, but not certain.  I'm sure someone else could provide a complete list.

[shavethewhales]

As unhappy as I am that we're going to be wasting money on all this ham, we can all rejoice that at least we don't have to hear anymore dam proposals anymore... There's undoubtedly some benefits coming from all this, despite the arguments about the timing within our current budget crises.

[cannon_fodder]

As unhappy as I am that we're going to be wasting money on all this ham, we can all rejoice that at least we don't have to hear anymore dam proposals anymore... There's undoubtedly some benefits coming from all this, despite the arguments about the timing within our current budget crises.

The timing is fine, as bond prices are so low for municipal bonds that it is almost free money (borrow cost anyway).

Overall, I'm happy it passed. It was designed to pass - set for an election with the lowest possible turn out (stupid Sheriff getting indicted and raising turnout) and enough slush money for about every organization to want it to pass even though they didn't like the package as a whole. Voters have consistently voted dam funding down, but combine it with enough special interests and you can get it to pass.  Keep the turnout low enough and TPD/TFD can almost pass their own funding if just friends and family turned out 13k votes). This could have been on the primary ballot, or on the next primary in a couple of months... it was set for the lowest possible turnout.

I'm most excited about the list of pet projects. Gilcrease. Turkey. etc.

On the dams, I'm happy the Zink dam will be renovated. If it is half of what is advertised it will be an asset for 50 years. The Jenks dam I wouldn't pay a dime for, and I don't believe anything they said about the "economic development" that comes along with either dam. As stated above, we can stop talking about dams now.

The police and fire proposal is just a slush fund. Per capita and adjusted for inflation, their budget has tripled, but they always need more money to reach this elusive zone of public safety that never materializes. The Fire Department even had trouble articulating what they needed they money for.  BUT - maybe now they will stop asking for MORE MORE MORE, and maybe perception of safety will go up. Which seems to be what really matters anyway.

Mass transit is a dream. If it delivers as advertised it could be a game changer.

The County Money is also just a slush fund as far as I can tell. I have no idea what they are going to use it for. But whatever.

If my choice was nothing passes or all passes, I'd want all to pass. I'm guilty of buying in to enough of the special interests (including Zink dam, Gilcrease, Turkey) to vote yes. Plus, in Oklahoma, I always fear that "low tax" will win no matter what. Even though this has some waste in it, it also has some good things.

The next fight will be for Riverparks land. When they get the shiny dams there will be a bunch of pressure to make them "pay for themselves" with economic development. In that most of the land is parkland, the argument will be that we need to give up some parkland to make it worthwhile.  Riverparks West needs to go to be combined with the cement lot, there is plenty of land on the east bank that is park, we can give some up for development here and there.  I wonder if they will develop the empty spaces they claimed were prime for development before making the play for parkland.

I'm always a cynic. But really, I'm glad it turned out the way it did.

[Conan71]

Obviously, I'm thrilled a project I presented along with three other groups made the funding list and has now passed and the footprint of Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness Area will grow.

There were many projects in this package I liked. Most of all, I'm excited to see the transformation of Gilcrease and I'm glad there will finally be accountability on rebuilding Zink Dam after so many broken promises on it.

I do believe it is wise to remain vigilant about what types of development take place along the river.  I'm sick and tired of hearing: "Tulsa needs to be like Portland, San Antonio, OKC, Denver, Austin, etc.".  We need to get beyond that mindset, take a close look at what our best assets are, and promote them as uniquely Tulsa.  I'm not saying there should not be development along it, but we do need to take a step back and realize how fortunate we are to have literally miles and miles of park land along our river which offers a respite from the daily grind, and do our best not to muck it up with layup slab crap like the REI project.

Hopefully, by the time we have Zink Dam done, we will have an administration with a much more progressive view of development and one which recognizes the tax base will only grow when you make Tulsa a place people want to live and where companies want to locate.  Let's face it, people don't make relocation decisions based on what they can buy in a new city.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

It is interesting seeing which districts showed up to vote and which districts voted for it:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/vision-votes-see-where-tulsa-voter-turnout-was-highest-and/article_8c6c732b-0c89-573d-8994-6570bcbcf7a5.html

As I would've expected, the midtown/downtown block strongly supported this and had the strongest turnout. The last time around, the rivertax had a strong passionate "vote no" crowd, evidenced by signs and a lot of people vocally against it. This time, the only signs I saw were for Vision and heard a lot more positive chatter about certain projects (with some disappointment about others not getting in).

I noticed that most of the districts which were against it had most of the lowest turnouts (North and East Tulsa). Again, very little opposition organization. The passionate crowd often wins in small elections like this.

[davideinstein]

It is interesting seeing which districts showed up to vote and which districts voted for it:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/vision-votes-see-where-tulsa-voter-turnout-was-highest-and/article_8c6c732b-0c89-573d-8994-6570bcbcf7a5.html

As I would've expected, the midtown/downtown block strongly supported this and had the strongest turnout. The last time around, the rivertax had a strong passionate "vote no" crowd, evidenced by signs and a lot of people vocally against it. This time, the only signs I saw were for Vision and heard a lot more positive chatter about certain projects (with some disappointment about others not getting in).

I noticed that most of the districts which were against it had most of the lowest turnouts (North and East Tulsa). Again, very little opposition organization. The passionate crowd often wins in small elections like this.

White, wealthy midtowners voted yes to spend $202M on a police department they'll never use.

[Dspike]

"White, wealthy midtowners voted yes to spend $202M on a police department they'll never use."

The Tulsa World maps are for Prop 3 (Water in the River + Economic Development). I would actually be interested to see if the geography of Prop 1 and 2 differ from Prop 3.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

White, wealthy midtowners voted yes to spend $202M on a police department they'll never use.

What are you trying to say here? The city needs more police as evidenced by the study the increase was based on. Hiring more officers and firefighters will benefit the entire city and hopefully reduce crime rates and improve health and safety (firefighters are often first responders).

This proposition passed by such a high margin, I doubt there were many districts against it. The map didn't show that though. It showed who voted for Prop 3. Are you making a facetious comment about the classic argument about these kinds of tax increases, "the rich voted for improvements the poor will never use"?

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Maybe he's saying white, middle class, midtowners were altruistic by voting to pay for something others will use 

But who knows

Tone is hard to convey in writing.

That's what emojis are for. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

There's no crime in midtown..??   No fires??   Whew!  I gotta move closer in!!

Don't know what I been thinking of all these years.