Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[Laramie]

None of the other local municipal tax measures that were part of the April 5 Vision vote are affected. The unaffected measures include three city of Tulsa propositions that are expected to raise about $800 million for public safety, economic development and public transit. Those taxes take effect Jan. 1.

Hopefully, this will only affect a small measure of the Vision 2025 initiative which garnered 64% of the vote.   It's important that Tulsa keeps the same momentum that Oklahoma City has with MAPS.   

Our two largest metropolitan areas need local support for initiatives like Vision 2025 & MAPS to keep up with the current trends to make both cities attractive to business & industry seeking to expand into our state.  Especially at a time when the State has hit a financial shortfall--making deep cuts to the bone.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Hopefully, this will only affect a small measure of the Vision 2025 initiative which garnered 64% of the vote.   It's important that Tulsa keeps the same momentum that Oklahoma City has with MAPS.   

Our two largest metropolitan areas need local support for initiatives like Vision 2025 & MAPS to keep up with the current trends to make both cities attractive to business & industry seeking to expand into our state.  Especially at a time when the State has hit a financial shortfall--making deep cuts to the bone.

Those aren't the main criteria to make the state/cities attractive to business/industry.  Education and infrastructure (roads, bridges, water, etc) are much higher on the list and we as a state are actively discouraging on that front.

[LandArchPoke]

What many opponents (and even some proponents) of this tax feared is already happening:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/city-officials-defend-cuts-to/article_c856782f-5f58-5fca-be53-c3e88ada47f4.html

This is not surprising and will probably be followed by about 150 police positions cut and 60 firefighters. Great job, Dewey! You really had the public going there! Bravo!

So basically we are getting 1 new 911 operators? AWESOME! Wonder how long before Dewey will shift this the same way for Fire and Police?

Exactly the reason why this should have NEVER been funded through Vision.

[swake]

Some dates are now being applied to the Vision projects:

The new pedestrian bridge at The Gathering Place will be built in 2018
New Zink Dam at 33rd will be built in 2019
The Convention Center expansion/renovation/conversion of old arena  in 2019
Gilcrease Museum expansion built in 2020
Tulsa Zoo Expansion in 2020
South Tulsa/Jenks dam built around 2024

http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/library/37be184c-5714-4df5-99b9-f600852ef67d.pdf

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Some dates are now being applied to the Vision projects:

The new pedestrian bridge at The Gathering Place will be built in 2018
New Zink Dam at 33rd will be built in 2019
The Convention Center expansion/renovation/conversion of old arena  in 2019
Gilcrease Museum expansion built in 2020
Tulsa Zoo Expansion in 2020
South Tulsa/Jenks dam built around 2024

http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/library/37be184c-5714-4df5-99b9-f600852ef67d.pdf

That is disappointing if Gilcrease won't start until 2020. Gilcrease expansion is about half funded by TU so really they could start earlier and I would expect some of the other projects could get loans/bonds to start earlier as well even though the anticipated funds would come later. I would expect Gilcrease of all those would push to get dirt moving asap to get their name out there and boost name recognition as a top-notch museum. Waiting that long would just forego that much more revenue.

I would be impressed if the Zink Dam is built so quickly compared to everything else on there. Hope they do go through with it quickly. I wonder how the pedestrian bridge/Zink Dam construction will hamper Gathering Place activities. Will be a bit unfortunate for that to complete just in time for a couple more big construction projects but should be worth it.

[SXSW]

That is disappointing if Gilcrease won't start until 2020. Gilcrease expansion is about half funded by TU so really they could start earlier and I would expect some of the other projects could get loans/bonds to start earlier as well even though the anticipated funds would come later. I would expect Gilcrease of all those would push to get dirt moving asap to get their name out there and boost name recognition as a top-notch museum. Waiting that long would just forego that much more revenue.

I would be impressed if the Zink Dam is built so quickly compared to everything else on there. Hope they do go through with it quickly. I wonder how the pedestrian bridge/Zink Dam construction will hamper Gathering Place activities. Will be a bit unfortunate for that to complete just in time for a couple more big construction projects but should be worth it.

Maybe the dam/whitewater flume and bridge projects can be done during Phase 2 of the Gathering Place.  That includes the Tulsa Children's Museum and other improvements at the south end of the park.  Not sure if the mixed-use housing and the new trail along Crow Creek are part of that phase or a Phase 3.  Still lots to be done after the initial park opens later this year.

[Conan71]

That is disappointing if Gilcrease won't start until 2020. Gilcrease expansion is about half funded by TU so really they could start earlier and I would expect some of the other projects could get loans/bonds to start earlier as well even though the anticipated funds would come later. I would expect Gilcrease of all those would push to get dirt moving asap to get their name out there and boost name recognition as a top-notch museum. Waiting that long would just forego that much more revenue.

I would be impressed if the Zink Dam is built so quickly compared to everything else on there. Hope they do go through with it quickly. I wonder how the pedestrian bridge/Zink Dam construction will hamper Gathering Place activities. Will be a bit unfortunate for that to complete just in time for a couple more big construction projects but should be worth it.

It would not surprise me if a re-do of the Zink Dam had already been factored into the staging of The Gathering Place either based on the confidence it would get rebuilt in a tax package or a certain private donor or donors would pay to have it done.

[cannon_fodder]

Gilclrease just did a major expansion largely funded by TU and the Helmrich's, $28,000,000 back in 2014.

http://www.newson6.com/story/26462158/tulsans-get-a-sneak-peek-at-gilcrease-28m-expansion

Obviously, that is not the massive public display area they want or need to properly display s small fraction of what they have.  But to design and contract a great public space takes time.  To plan the displays, prepare the art, and strengthen relationships with the art community takes time.  Three years is might be a fair amount of time even if the project was fully funded today.

[Vision 2025]

It would not surprise me if a re-do of the Zink Dam had already been factored into the staging of The Gathering Place either based on the confidence it would get rebuilt in a tax package or a certain private donor or donors would pay to have it done.

The Zink Dam improvements were mutually coordinated with the Gathering Place design which functions well with or without the Zink improvements but definitely better with IMHO.   

[SXSW]

Some dates are now being applied to the Vision projects:

The new pedestrian bridge at The Gathering Place will be built in 2018
New Zink Dam at 33rd will be built in 2019
The Convention Center expansion/renovation/conversion of old arena  in 2019
Gilcrease Museum expansion built in 2020
Tulsa Zoo Expansion in 2020
South Tulsa/Jenks dam built around 2024

http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/library/37be184c-5714-4df5-99b9-f600852ef67d.pdf

We know the pedestrian bridge has been pushed back and discussed in another thread.  Hopefully when the Zink Dam improvements are done it can be in conjunction with the new ped bridge.  While the Gathering Place doesn't need to have these improvements to function it makes it a lot better.  If I remember it correctly the dam raises the water level in Zink Lake by 3 ft. which should make an impact on the river scenery all the way up past I-244.

I believe the other projects are still on schedule for 2019/2020.  I have no idea on what the latest is with the Jenks low water dam but I imagine the Creek's wanting to get that project moving with all of their investments in that area.

[cannon_fodder]

If we are going to get started on the pedestrian bridge in 2018, we should probably get some details together sooner rather than later.

[Vision 2025]

I believe the other projects are still on schedule for 2019/2020.  I have no idea on what the latest is with the Jenks low water dam but I imagine the Creek's wanting to get that project moving with all of their investments in that area.

The South Tulsa/Jenks LWD is presently in what we believe are the final stages of the environmental permitting by the USACE.  As of the last schedule Construction I say it was differed by many years into the City of Tulsa's program.

[SXSW]

The South Tulsa/Jenks LWD is presently in what we believe are the final stages of the environmental permitting by the USACE.  As of the last schedule Construction I say it was differed by many years into the City of Tulsa's program.

Is the 2024 timeline accurate then, or could we see this project start before then? 

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Updates (as far as I know or can find sources on) for Vision 2025 stuff:

* The prized visionary item in Vision 2025: Gilcrease museum - $65 million expansion (with $55 million "matching funds" from TU) to nearly double size to rival Crystal Bridges, slated to begin in 2020. Now $83 million total budget which will completely demolish existing 134,000 square foot museum (which was just renovated with $28 million in 2014) and rebuild a new 89,000 square foot museum which comes nowhere close to the 217,000 square foot Crystal Bridges museum. Will instead meet existing scope of the base city museum with the vast majority of the collection to remain in a vault, rather than on display. No regional or national draw expected.
* The Pedestrian Bridge is held up and is far under-funded vs what the citizens voted on.
* The BMX construction on the Fairgrounds was completely botched and old usable stadium (for which there was income-producing demand for soccer games) was demolished to be a sinkhole of lawn maintenance and no prospects. The new BMX facility ended up costing around 50% more than what it was supposed to cost.
* Zink Dam seems nowhere near starting even though it was slated to be constructed in 2019 (http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/library/37be184c-5714-4df5-99b9-f600852ef67d.pdf)
* The cuts to 911 15 staff right after voters approved adding 16 positions (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/city-officials-defend-cuts-to/article_c856782f-5f58-5fca-be53-c3e88ada47f4.html) (The ol' bait & switch with fund diversion)
* Public Safety: Has crime decreased at all? In any categories? I keep seeing Tulsa creep up the most dangerous city lists with astonishingly high violent and property crime rates. Looks like some neighborhoods are safe from violent crime but petty theft is common while other neighborhoods are drowning in crime. Do we even have more police or fire fighters than before 2016?
* Education: Once again no measurable or visible improvement. Families still flock to the suburbs while the majority of inner city schools are proving they cannot and will not educate students. Teacher retention kept dropping more and more over the last 4 years. Nothing about the teacher retention fund seemed to help.  

I haven't heard updates on most of the Vision 2025 projects. Are any of the big items being constructed yet? We voted for this stuff in 2016 and 4 years later there is almost no progress on any of the big items! This is pathetic. Tulsans were foolish to ever think giving the government more money would create any "big visionary" changes like we were sold before voting. One of the easier things to implement in the package (BRT) took over 3 years!


I guess the government wants to teach Tulsans an important lesson: Life sucks and then you die. Or more specifically Tulsa sucks and the city will keep throwing your money away to make sure it always will. And Tulsa will approve the next "VISION" package and then the one after that because Tulsans are suckers and voters are mostly ignorant fools educated by the horrible excuse for an education system in the place that loves Trump, Bynum and Stitt. Some people including probably most on this board pay attention and there are quite a few well-educated, but they're consolidated to a few areas, making the other areas that much worse.

If we don't spend a massive amount of energy and money to make education the #1 priority, our society will keep going the direction it has with worsening crime and poverty. It takes education first and then over a long time, the poverty and crime will decrease. The state government is doing its best to assure we will be a bottom feeding state in the future. O&G can't bail us out forever with all of its high paying low-education jobs.

[SXSW]

If you're going to trust the government (city/state/federal) to actually manage projects to a budget and schedule you'll always be disappointed.  Those issues you raised are the same issues that are being dealt with around the country, and in many places it is WORSE or far more corrupt.  You're naive if you think that government leaders and their cronies don't line their pockets with taxpayer funds.  Imagine that (no pun intended).