Brickhugger buys former Nordam HQ, plans Mixed-Use Development

[johrasephoenix]

Capping the east or south sides of the IDL is a wet dream of mine.  It would just take extraordinary political courage and amazing timing to pull it off.

Capping a highway that's below grade is about $200/sf (it is much, much more expensive if you have to bring an at-grade highway down).  That means to make capping the southern leg of the IDL work we need to have big, big development nearby or a huge public subsidy.  I just don't see either of those scenarios happening.  But I really hope I'm wrong.

Perhaps it would be easier to convert the eastern leg into a boulevard.  A bunch of cities like Milwaukee, SF, and New Haven have taken down major highways and converted them into city streets.  It reconnects the grid and opens all that land to development.  And unlike straight highway removal (which is awesome), the boulevard is still open to lots of vehicular traffic which makes it more palatable to DOT officials and the suburban-parking-loving-SUV-driving general public.

[LandArchPoke]

I catch so much grief for my Williams thread, ha. I just like connectivity. Going beyond these sites, we could just get rid of the east side of the IDL as well.

I didn't read most of the William thread, but from what I saw people were pretty critical of the idea. (Not to drift this thread) but I don't think re-doing that block is necessarily a bad idea either. It's not the tower that is the problem, it is the old Forum space that is now the Williams Resource Center. If Williams does leave town, I would like to see whoever buys the tower knock the resource center down. You could extend Main Street to 2nd street then and would do wonders in reconnecting the Brady with the CBD. What people don't realize is a huge chuck of office space Williams occupy's is in the Resource Center, so redeveloping that and the parking lot to the west into a mixed-use development if vacated would stabilize the office market downtown tremendously too.

Capping the east or south sides of the IDL is a wet dream of mine.  It would just take extraordinary political courage and amazing timing to pull it off.

Capping a highway that's below grade is about $200/sf (it is much, much more expensive if you have to bring an at-grade highway down).  That means to make capping the southern leg of the IDL work we need to have big, big development nearby or a huge public subsidy.  I just don't see either of those scenarios happening.  But I really hope I'm wrong.

Perhaps it would be easier to convert the eastern leg into a boulevard.  A bunch of cities like Milwaukee, SF, and New Haven have taken down major highways and converted them into city streets.  It reconnects the grid and opens all that land to development.  And unlike straight highway removal (which is awesome), the boulevard is still open to lots of vehicular traffic which makes it more palatable to DOT officials and the suburban-parking-loving-SUV-driving general public.

You are right about the expense to cap the freeways. $200 sq. ft. is about the cost it took for both the park in Dallas and some of the small infill/capping projects I've looked at in places like Columbus. That makes any type of development in Tulsa at this point unprofitable, unless we shoveled subsidies into it through waiving property and sales taxes for a long time on any development over the freeways. The East leg really does need to be demolished and rebuilt as an at-grade boulevard.

Right now you have this site (Nordam) that would directly benefit from it. You also have Jackson Shaw out of Dallas who is working on plans to re-develop the FinTube site that would directly benefit from this as well. Add if we re-developed the Home Depot site with a soccer stadium and mixed-use development... that's the type of game changing infrastructure investment that would elevate Tulsa nationally.

If you all haven't seen the project I had proposed for Vision, check it out: www.infrastructuretulsa.org

[johrasephoenix]

Hey - wow - that's awesome.  Did you ever get a chance to talk with any elected official?  I'm curious if our most forward thinking officials like GT or Blake but would be receptive to that. 

But seriously, it would be a complete game changer.  Downtown is densely built all around the southern and eastern edge of the IDL.  Inside the IDL is grass because the highways have choked it to death.  This would let downtown breath and completely change the experience of being downtown.  It would re-set the natural progression of little buildings gradually becoming bigger buildings until you hit the CBD.

I used to live in Chicago so can speak to it's downtown... it has highways cutting off downtown on two of its three sides.  The two sides with interstates fell into disrepair with grass lots, brownfields and surface parking the shadow of skyscrapers.   The one side that was interstate free boomed into River North, the Midwest's premier urban space (Magnificent Mile, Navy Pier, Gold Coast etc).

Also - nice work in sketchup!  I've never actually been able to get my sketchup model to neatly slide into an aerial photo like that. 

[johrasephoenix]

Whoa - just now reading your report.  This is great stuff.  I'm an urban planning grad student moving back to Tulsa for a summer internship (first time living back in OK in 10 years).  We should snag a drink or something and brainstorm highway removal. 

[davideinstein]

I didn't read most of the William thread, but from what I saw people were pretty critical of the idea. (Not to drift this thread) but I don't think re-doing that block is necessarily a bad idea either. It's not the tower that is the problem, it is the old Forum space that is now the Williams Resource Center. If Williams does leave town, I would like to see whoever buys the tower knock the resource center down. You could extend Main Street to 2nd street then and would do wonders in reconnecting the Brady with the CBD. What people don't realize is a huge chuck of office space Williams occupy's is in the Resource Center, so redeveloping that and the parking lot to the west into a mixed-use development if vacated would stabilize the office market downtown tremendously too.

You are right about the expense to cap the freeways. $200 sq. ft. is about the cost it took for both the park in Dallas and some of the small infill/capping projects I've looked at in places like Columbus. That makes any type of development in Tulsa at this point unprofitable, unless we shoveled subsidies into it through waiving property and sales taxes for a long time on any development over the freeways. The East leg really does need to be demolished and rebuilt as an at-grade boulevard.

Right now you have this site (Nordam) that would directly benefit from it. You also have Jackson Shaw out of Dallas who is working on plans to re-develop the FinTube site that would directly benefit from this as well. Add if we re-developed the Home Depot site with a soccer stadium and mixed-use development... that's the type of game changing infrastructure investment that would elevate Tulsa nationally.

If you all haven't seen the project I had proposed for Vision, check it out: www.infrastructuretulsa.org

It was by far the best Vision proposal.

[SXSW]

It's not the tower that is the problem, it is the old Forum space that is now the Williams Resource Center. If Williams does leave town, I would like to see whoever buys the tower knock the resource center down. You could extend Main Street to 2nd street then and would do wonders in reconnecting the Brady with the CBD.

I could see this idea gaining some traction if/when the downtown transit hub is planned in that area.  Get Main to 2nd and then figure out a way to reconfigure the Hyatt to get it to 3rd and you would have a complete connection.  Continue the streetscape already in place from 6th to 3rd all the way to the bridge and over into Brady.

[AdamsHall]

Chain link fence has been installed around much of the Nordam Facility including closing off Lansing Ave.

[RecycleMichael]

It was by far the best Vision proposal.

This was my proposal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cpZbGX5F2Y

[cannon_fodder]

Chain link fence has been installed around much of the Nordam Facility including closing off Lansing Ave.

I saw that. In the back of my head I thought it was preparation for OK EQ Pride, but their calendar says that isn't until June. So it can't be that.

City of Tulsa doesn't show a permit to close the road on their website:
https://www.cityoftulsa.org/road-closure-map/map.aspx

Another story was posted on News on 6 yesterday, but no real details. Nordam sold it. Brickhugger bought it. The thought is to use it for mix-redevelopment, but no actual plans and no timeline. If there is no timeline for developing it, why block it off? Even though they bought most of the property through there, they didn't buy the streets. Curious.

http://www.newson6.com/story/31632469/former-nordam-building-to-help-transform-tulsas-east-village-buyers-say

[swake]

I saw that. In the back of my head I thought it was preparation for OK EQ Pride, but their calendar says that isn't until June. So it can't be that.

City of Tulsa doesn't show a permit to close the road on their website:
https://www.cityoftulsa.org/road-closure-map/map.aspx

Another story was posted on News on 6 yesterday, but no real details. Nordam sold it. Brickhugger bought it. The thought is to use it for mix-redevelopment, but no actual plans and no timeline. If there is no timeline for developing it, why block it off? Even though they bought most of the property through there, they didn't buy the streets. Curious.

http://www.newson6.com/story/31632469/former-nordam-building-to-help-transform-tulsas-east-village-buyers-say

Is it a public street? Could Nordam have taken possession of it at some point over the years?

It does seem seriously fast to close up the property.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Blue whale.

I want a penquin!!


Oh, yeah...get rid of the praying hands!!

[Bamboo World]

Is it a public street?

No

Could Nordam have taken possession of it at some point over the years?

Yes, long ago.

It does seem seriously fast to close up the property.

Not fast.  Kenosha, Lansing, 5th St, and 5th Pl have been private property for many years.

[swake]

No

Yes, long ago.

Not fast.  Kenosha, Lansing, 5th St, and 5th Pl have been private property for many years.

I mean fast to close off the property.  It seems that plans are already developed.

[davideinstein]

This was my proposal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cpZbGX5F2Y

I saw it! A lot of times I'm at these meetings in the back just listening.

[cannon_fodder]

Not fast.  Kenosha, Lansing, 5th St, and 5th Pl have been private property for many years.

That appears to be the case after a closer look on the Tulsa County Assessor website. It is really 5 "super blocks" with no public access. Which makes sense, driving through there always seemed like Nordam just used everything like they owned it... well, they do (did). Strange that they never put up the blue/private street signs.  

The road ownership creates even more potential, it also creates the risk of a "private" neighborhood behind gates so suburbanites can live downtown and still "feel safe." Brickhugger doesn't seem like the kind of group for such a task though. More like an opportunity.