Terence Crutcher

[godboko71]

Sad situation.

Few things:
A car running/being on doesn't mean it will move. or isn't "broken down." Transmission goes out car can run until it runs out of gas as one example.

As for the size difference being why she pulled her gun, why not pull her taser (maybe she didn't have one if not that needs to change.) That would easily level the playing field so to speak.

Based on what we have seen of the victim, if he is high it isn't on PCP, too docile.

Anyway unless some other video comes to light to show something drastic, deadly force should have never been a thought let alone the outcome.

[Bamboo World]

That's exactly how the lights/toggle system works with the camera.  All the news tonight is focusing on how poorly Charlotte, NC is dealing with a somewhat similar situation.  I'm proud that Tulsa is, so far, dealing with this in a much more reasonable, thoughtful, community-wide manner.  I would hope that we could refrain from non-fact based conjecture and give our system time to discern exactly what happened before we start assigning the blame to either the victim or police officer.  Tulsa has chosen the route of transparency and avoided the riot-geared police force which seems to have exacerbated the situation in Charlotte.

There's no non-fact based conjecture on my part.  I'm observing the videos.

When I look at the helicopter video, the lights on the top of Betty Shelby's vehicle appear to be flashing.  That would be toggle position 2 or 3, as explained in cannon_fodder's post.  If the lights are toggled on to 2 or 3, which they appear to be in the helicopter video, then the camera is supposed to be on, according to cannon_fodders 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 toggle description.

When I look at the helicopter video, I can see that the lights on Officer Dunn's vehicle are toggled off for a few seconds.  According to cannon_fodder's description, that means Dunn's lights were toggled to 0 or 1 for a few seconds.  However, when I see Dunn's dashcam video, it appears to continue recording when the lights are toggled to 0 or 1.  According to cannon_fodder's toggle description, the camera is off when lights are toggled to 0 or 1.

When I look at Officer Roy's video, the dashcam records for about six minutes after the lights are toggled to 0 or 1.  According to cannon_fodder's toggle description, the camera is off when the lights are toggled to 0 or 1.

So, after looking at the videos and comparing what I saw to cannon_fodder's toggle explanation, I doubt if the lights/siren toggle works with dashcam exactly as he described.

If cannon_fodder's 0-1-2-3 toggle description is exactly how the lights/siren/camera work, then why wasn't Officer Shelby's camera activated when her lights were toggled on 2 or 3?
 

[sauerkraut]

The big issue here is why did Crutcher stop his car in the middle of the street like that with the engine running and walk away, to any cop that comes along it looks like someone left a stolen car there and fled on foot, or it could also be a set-up to ambush any cop that stops for it. It's likely Crutcher was high PCP or meth and did not know what was going on or what he was doing so he stopped his car in the middle of the street and got out and walked around. The cop said he was un-responsive & would not say much and he kept putting his hand in his pockets and he was warned 3 times not to do that. He could have a gun in there and shoot right thru the pocket. The whole thing was one big grim situation. If Crutcher parked on the side of the road it never would of attracted attention. Not really sure what to make of this, have to wait for lab reports I guess.

[patric]

So, after looking at the videos and comparing what I saw to cannon_fodder's toggle explanation, I doubt if the lights/siren toggle works with dashcam exactly as he described.

The lighting toggle isnt an on/off switch for the dashcam, but rather a trigger for a software sequence.
Panasonic Arbitrator cameras are continuously recording, like a DVR.  By settings in software, you can specify what conditions trigger a recording state that can be flagged for downloading.  

Airbag deployment in an accident, for example, captures not only the accident but the 30 seconds prior to that accident.  Same with lightbars.
When you look at Turnbough's dashcam, the "recording" starts 30 seconds before he hits his lights.  You can even see his door slam as he enters his vehicle.


Even if Shelby's dashcam wasnt triggered by the light bar, it still recorded to the buffer, which could have been forensically extracted at a later time.

[heironymouspasparagus]

So are we all deciding to refute every single thing that Shelby has said happened (that I posted above)?

Honestly, if every single thing she said was true, I can still see that she made a gigantic mistake by discharging her weapon.

Yeah, I read your commentary...good summary of what she said.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the basics are true - the steps of the 'walk through'.  The details are what matters though, and there are enough of those that have been obvious lies that it kinda casts a shadow over the entire commentary right now.  We shall see over the next days/weeks to see where it all goes.  It is not good, no matter what.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The big issue here is why did Crutcher stop his car in the middle of the street like that with the engine running and walk away, to any cop that comes along it looks like someone left a stolen car there and fled on foot, or it could also be a set-up to ambush any cop that stops for it. It's likely Crutcher was high PCP or meth and did not know what was going on or what he was doing so he stopped his car in the middle of the street and got out and walked around. The cop said he was un-responsive & would not say much and he kept putting his hand in his pockets and he was warned 3 times not to do that. He could have a gun in there and shoot right thru the pocket. The whole thing was one big grim situation. If Crutcher parked on the side of the road it never would of attracted attention. Not really sure what to make of this, have to wait for lab reports I guess.

Oh, geez....maybe he stopped because the car was having trouble...??   If you had ever driven a car, you might understand that the engine can actually run, while the car is inoperable or at least dangerous to drive. 

Yeah....likely that he just attended class and got high right then.... could be. 

[erfalf]

Oh, geez....maybe he stopped because the car was having trouble...??   If you had ever driven a car, you might understand that the engine can actually run, while the car is inoperable or at least dangerous to drive. 

Yeah....likely that he just attended class and got high right then.... could be. 

It would be more believable if he hadn't left and told others it was going to explode.

FYI

District attorney calls for first-degree manslaughter charge against officer in fatal shooting of Terence Crutcher

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/district-attorney-calls-for-first-degree-manslaughter-charge-against-officer/article_e5cc9bee-6300-5f1f-bc0b-e45dd7fd356f.html

[Conan71]

Oh, geez....maybe he stopped because the car was having trouble...??   If you had ever driven a car, you might understand that the engine can actually run, while the car is inoperable or at least dangerous to drive. 

Yeah....likely that he just attended class and got high right then.... could be. 

And, as well, a car can continue to run after you hallucinate and see a dragon in the passenger seat and flee the vehicle claiming it's going to blow.

I mean it does happen.

[swake]

It would be more believable if he hadn't left and told others it was going to explode.

FYI

District attorney calls for first-degree manslaughter charge against officer in fatal shooting of Terence Crutcher

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/district-attorney-calls-for-first-degree-manslaughter-charge-against-officer/article_e5cc9bee-6300-5f1f-bc0b-e45dd7fd356f.html

That charge seems to properly fit what happened.

[Bamboo World]

Even if Shelby's dashcam wasn't triggered by the light bar, it still recorded to the buffer, which could have been forensically extracted at a later time.

That seems reasonable to me.

What doesn't make sense is why Officer Shelby's camera wasn't activated.  Her light bar appeared to be flashing, which means the lights were toggled to 2 or 3, as explained in cannon_fodder's description.

[Conan71]

That charge seems to properly fit what happened.

I'd say that's a reasonable amount of time to bring charges.  Let's hope Al $harpton butts out and doesn't stir up trouble now.  I give the city and the DA high marks for making this investigation a priority and filing charges they feel is appropriate after investigation.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And, as well, a car can continue to run after you hallucinate and see a dragon in the passenger seat and flee the vehicle claiming it's going to blow.

I mean it does happen.

I have had it happen to me a couple of times.  Turns out it wasn't real....

Seems like they said he was talking about it catching fire... coulda smelled a gas leak.  Or anti-freeze.  Or who knows what....?  Overheated brakes.  Transmission 'burning' out.  Electrical short in dash.  Dropped cigarette on carpet or upholstery.

Several possible sources of fire in a car...haven't covered half of them....

[Bamboo World]

I wonder why Officer Shelby's dashcam seemingly wasn't recording.

[Conan71]

I have had it happen to me a couple of times.  Turns out it wasn't real....

Seems like they said he was talking about it catching fire... coulda smelled a gas leak.  Or anti-freeze.  Or who knows what....?  Overheated brakes.  Transmission 'burning' out.  Electrical short in dash.  Dropped cigarette on carpet or upholstery.

Several possible sources of fire in a car...haven't covered half of them....

Well, one 911 caller said she thought he was "smoking something".  I'm not making that up.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well, one 911 caller said she thought he was "smoking something".  I'm not making that up.

Cigarette is smoking... caller coulda been smelling something from a problem with car, too.  Looking forward to more information.

Maybe the tox report will talk about nicotine as well as any other recreational chemicals that may or may not have been present.  One can only hope.  My bet is still that having just left class, he probably didn't have time to get stoned by that point, no matter what he may have done in the rest of his private life.  Possible, but it would be a push to get to that point....