President Trump- The Implications

[Townsend]

'None Of This Is Real': Conservative Media Reacts To Mueller Indictments

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/31/561070095/none-of-this-is-real-conservative-media-reacts-to-mueller-indictments

When conservative commentator and host Rush Limbaugh opened his radio show Monday, indictments had just been made public in Washington, D.C., against President Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. Manafort and one of his top lieutenants had been taken into custody on charges of money laundering and tax evasion. Special counsel Robert Mueller had also secured a guilty plea from former Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos, who admitted to lying to the FBI about contacts with Russia.

But Limbaugh, one of the most influential voices on the right, worked quickly to reframe the day's developments. "None of this is real," he insisted. When a listener suggested Mueller had "gone rogue" and might be trying to topple Trump, Limbaugh amplified the fear. "This is the coup. If Hillary had been elected, none of this would be happening, other than they still put Trump in jail as a message to the outsider: Don't dare try this."

For weeks, conservative media outlets have echoed these themes, working to discredit Mueller and recycling own Trump's tweets describing the probe as a political witch hunt. They've also worked to refocus attention onto former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Trump himself still refers to his opponent in last year's presidential election as "Crooked Hillary."

On Monday, Limbaugh and other conservative media outlets built on those themes. They downplayed the immediate impact of the Manafort indictments, insisting that they have nothing to do with Trump or his campaign. They also suggested the probe reflects an unfair attack on a populist president by Washington insiders and media liberals.

Much of Monday's conservative coverage asserted that Clinton is actually the one who colluded with Russia when she was secretary of state. Fox News star Sean Hannity told his audience that people investigating Trump are all complicit in an Obama administration decision in 2010 that allowed a Russian company to gain a financial interest in part of America's uranium reserves.

"All the people involved in this, from Rosenstein who appointed Mueller, both of them, and Eric Holder and likely President Obama himself. Hillary was up to her eyeballs as was her husband in the Uranium One deal," Hannity said, listing a who's who of Justice Department figures and Democratic Party leaders, who he claimed were ignoring a more significant Russia scandal.

Fact-checkers with The Washington Post and other outlets have looked at these narratives involving Clinton and found they don't check out. Nor do these claims have anything to do with Monday's indictments or the question of whether Trump's campaign colluded with Russia during the 2016 election. But Clinton remains a lightning rod on the right, and many conservatives believe her actions in office threatened national security.

Despite these counternarratives about Mueller and Clinton, there was still deep alarm Monday in some right-wing media. Speaking on Fox News, Byron York with the conservative Washington Examiner warned that the indictments might mark a turning point. "Could they be used to pressure Manafort to give them information about any possible wrongdoing on the Trump campaign?" York asked. "The only problem is we don't know of what such wrongdoing might be. But certainly Manafort is now under pressure."

The right-wing website Breitbart, run by former White House strategist Steve Bannon, acknowledged to readers that former Trump campaign adviser Papadopoulos pleaded guilty after lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians and trying to purge his Facebook account. His guilty plea directly contradicts a claim made by conservative media for months that Mueller's entire probe is fake news.

[swake]

Here are the people we know that Papadopoulos emailed about his conversations with Russian government agents.

Corey Lewandowski is the "high-ranking campaign official", he was at the time campaign manager.
Sam Clovis is the "campaign supervisor", he was co-chair of Trump's campaign and current nominee to be the head scientist of the USDA. In the court documents Lewandowski tells Papadopoulos via email that Clovis is "running point" on contacts with Russia.

But let's be really clear on the last two here:
Paul Manafort is the "Another high-ranking campaign official" who was chair of Trump's campaign. He sent an email that contacts with the Russians should be through low level staffers to "another campaign official"
Rick Gates was the "another campaign official"

So the last piece of this puzzle is that Carter Page has admitted that he likely was copied on these emails on MSNBC earlier today. He may well be the low level staffer that was sent to Russia in Trump's place for a "non-offical" meeting. He did make such a trip for a "speech" in Moscow after Manafort said Trump shouldn't go himself and they needed to send a low level staffer for contact instead.

Mueller is trying to flip Gates and Manafort who sent Page to Russia to talk about emails.

And if you think two campaign chairmen and a campaign manager didn't tell Trump about contacts like this with Russia, please stop day drinking.

Another bonus the "Senior Policy Advisor" that Papadopoulos emails about contacts with Russia is likely none other than Jeff "I know nothing" Sessions, the AG of the United States. If this is correct he has absolutely perjured himself several times before the United States Senate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whos-who-in-the-george-papadopoulos-court-documents/2017/10/30/e131158c-bdb3-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.a7c67e17ae41

[swake]

Here are the people we know that Papadopoulos emailed about his conversations with Russian government agents.

Corey Lewandowski is the "high-ranking campaign official", he was at the time campaign manager.
Sam Clovis is the "campaign supervisor", he was co-chair of Trump's campaign and current nominee to be the head scientist of the USDA. In the court documents Lewandowski tells Papadopoulos via email that Clovis is "running point" on contacts with Russia.

But let's be really clear on the last two here:
Paul Manafort is the "Another high-ranking campaign official" who was chair of Trump's campaign. He sent an email that contacts with the Russians should be through low level staffers to "another campaign official"
Rick Gates was the "another campaign official"

So the last piece of this puzzle is that Carter Page has admitted that he likely was copied on these emails on MSNBC earlier today. He may well be the low level staffer that was sent to Russia in Trump's place for a "non-offical" meeting. He did make such a trip for a "speech" in Moscow after Manafort said Trump shouldn't go himself and they needed to send a low level staffer for contact instead.

Mueller is trying to flip Gates and Manafort who sent Page to Russia to talk about emails.

And if you think two campaign chairmen and a campaign manager didn't tell Trump about contacts like this with Russia, please stop day drinking.

Another bonus the "Senior Policy Advisor" that Papadopoulos emails about contacts with Russia is likely none other than Jeff "I know nothing" Sessions, the AG of the United States. If this is correct he has absolutely perjured himself several times before the United States Senate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whos-who-in-the-george-papadopoulos-court-documents/2017/10/30/e131158c-bdb3-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.a7c67e17ae41

Could it also be that Page has pled to charges and been flipped as well and we just don't know it yet? Why else would he go on TV and talk and say he does not have a lawyer?

[patric]

'None Of This Is Real': Conservative Media Reacts To Mueller Indictments

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/31/561070095/none-of-this-is-real-conservative-media-reacts-to-mueller-indictments

Campaign opposition research is a rough business, as Trump acknowledged when he used the term to describe his son's meeting with a Russian lawyer promising dirt on Clinton.
https://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/michael-dobie/don-t-be-confused-this-is-the-real-russian-scandal-1.14654664

Russian operatives were remarkably adept at using social media to exploit America's divisions on race, immigration and LGBTQ rights. One Russian campaign pretending to be part of the Black Lives Matter movement used Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, Tumblr and Pokemon Go to highlight alleged police brutality and inflame American discord on the topic.

[erfalf]

I think what Swake posed beggs a question. IF, a big if, it is found out that those around Trump, and maybe even Trump himself, are found to have sought out and found incriminating evidence that Russians dug up through whatever means, what crime will they be charged with?

[cannon_fodder]

I read a piece speculating that Sessions could be in significant trouble based on government filings and sworn testimony to Congress.  He "forgot" or couldn't remember a lot of things, but other things he outright denied. He has already had to backtrack and recuse himself from involvement with Russia, if it turns out some of his statements to Congress were not accurate irony could blossom. Jeff Sessions voted to convict Bill Clinton for lying to Congress and obstruction of Justice...   
- -

I also think the right wing talking head reaction is getting comical:

No one with Trump ever met with any Russians, non story!
Other than Flynn, no one has Russian connections.
Other than Manafort, Kush, and Trump Jr. no one had a non disclosed meeting with Russians.
Other than Sessions, no one had a non disclosed meeting with Russians.
I'm glad there is an investigation, because it is a non-story!
Of Course Trump fired the AG for things Trump approved of that were done months ago, it has nothing to do with Russia!
While Trump says he fired the AG because of things having to do with Russia, it isn't meant to obstruct at all!
Awesome, they appointed Mueller to investigate.  He's a solid conservative and a great guy who will get the truth out.
Trump campaign chair is a low level volunteer whose indictment for money laundering connected to Krelmin backed politicians is irrelevant!
There is no evidence anyone with the campaign tried to set up secret meetings with the Russian government, these indictments are the best they've got!
Trumps foreign policy adviser discussing secret Russia meetings with campaign officials is irrelevant!
Mueller is a plant by Hillary Clinton and Obama in an attempt to topple the American government, declare communism, and take our guns! All of the Russia story is a lie.  HILLARY CLINTON!

[cannon_fodder]

I think what Swake posed beggs a question. IF, a big if, it is found out that those around Trump, and maybe even Trump himself, are found to have sought out and found incriminating evidence that Russians dug up through whatever means, what crime will they be charged with?

Sure, we've all heard Trump's people say there is no "crime" of collusion.  But many possibilities could trigger some form of criminal prosecution, such as:


Campaign Finance laws (no one can solicit or accept anything of value to a political campaign from a foreign government)
Perjury
Failure to disclose
Crimes if someone aided the hacking
Receiving stolen property (again, related to hacking)
Offering services to a foreign government in exchange for something of value (e.g., I will remove the sanctions if you approve XYZ transaction to personally benefit me or friends)
Defrauding the United States
Conspiracy to violate any of the above or others
Any number of ancillary crimes (see the recent indictments)
300 things no one has ever heard of but a clever prosecutor can find in his book...


Who knows what turns up, but if evidence supports the notion that the campaign for the President of the United States sought help from Russia to defeat a political opponent and then spent a year denying it - odds are the DOJ can see a few crimes in there.

[swake]

So Ivan Timofeev was one of the Russian contacts that George Papadopoulos was working with regarding hacked DNC and Podesta emails. He's a Russian agent from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and is on the sanctions list from the Magnitsky Act. You know, the same law that Russian agents met with The Kush and Don Jr about. And Manafort.

It's certainly starting to look like the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta with a more specific goal than just getting Trump elected. They wanted this law that impacts the wealthy and powerful in Russia killed. In exchange they released those emails and ran social media attacks to help Trump get elected. Which worked.

[Conan71]

It remains to be seen, but much like the fervor to sink Dick Cheney only ended up with Scooter Libby's a$$ in the wringer, I see something similar happening here:  Trump skates due to a lack of proof anyone in the campaign had advised him about these Russian contacts.  Manafort, Gates, Kushner, et. al. end up taking the heat, Trump pardons them and we are still stuck with Trump for his full term.

Thus, my total lack of enthusiasm for this investigation.

[guido911]

Horrible terrorist attack in New York. What's worse? No one is talking about Russia right now. Heartbreaking news to Swake.

[swake]

Horrible terrorist attack in New York. What's worse? No one is talking about Russia right now. Heartbreaking news to Swake.

Classy and timely as always Guido. Screw you.

[heironymouspasparagus]

What are you talking about? Are you trying to educate me on the content of a criminal indictment? If so, I'd love for you to share with me your trove of criminal law and procedure knowledge.

Don't "gnaw" on your own leg - he is on your side the vast  majority of the time...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Bail for House Arrest?  Wet noodle.

This is just the start of a very wide and deep net they are casting - they really couldn't care less about Manafort or any of the other minions...I bet he could get sentenced to "time served" - the time it took to make bail - under the right circumstances. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Horrible terrorist attack in New York. What's worse? No one is talking about Russia right now. Heartbreaking news to Swake.

Perspective moment on that little thread drift.  There were also a dozen shootings in New York over the weekend - most of them at family bar-b-ques!  But only one dead....

http://nypost.com/2017/06/26/string-of-weekend-shootings-leaves-one-man-dead/

[TeeDub]

More important news from New York!

http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/my-boyfriend-dumped-me-because-of-my-vagina-smell/

(Sorry, it was under your NY shooting article and the title made me laugh.)