President Trump- The Implications

[swake]

Not to disrupt a hate on Trump festival, but you do realize the order he signed doesn't even mention Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen?

The CNN piece I linked to hints to that fact...

The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."

So much for real news.



Feel free to read it yourselves.Here is a CNN link.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/

Who chose what list to exclude? Just because the list of countries that are impacted by the order is external to the order itself doesn't change the intent and impact of the order.

[swake]

According to Reince Priebus it's congress' list:

"Perhaps other countries needed to be added to an executive order going forward — but in order to do this in a way that was expeditious, in a way that would pass muster quickly, we used the 7 countries" already identified by Congress, he said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/priebus-immigration-order-doesn-t-include-green-card-holders-anyone-n713731

[heironymouspasparagus]

I found this to be terrifying:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

A psychological profile of gas lighting.  It is not directed at Trump, just good/bad timing I guess.  I implore you to read it, and see how many boxes our new leader checks off.  Argue with psychologists if you want, but wow...

The article lists the common tactics and explains each of them:

1. They tell you blatant lies.
2.  They deny they ever said something, even though you have proof.
3.  They use what is near and dear to you as ammunition.
4.  They wear you down over time.
5. Their actions do not match their words.
6. They throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you.
7.  They know confusion weakens people.
8.  They project.
9.  They try to align people against you.
10.  They tell you or others that you are crazy.
11.  They tell you everyone else is a liar.

Hijacked Republican Party since the 70's.   Eisenhower tried to warn us, but we didn't pay any attention.

[cannon_fodder]

Meanwhile, no one called Obama a hater or racist while deportations and detentions were up under his administration.  This managed to go mostly unnoticed by protesters in the streets or either it represents a double-standard.

Exactly!  And that could be because he was concentrating his deportation efforts on criminals while going out of his way for children of immigrants who have known no home by the US.  And in doing that, he still managed to deport more people in the US illegally than anyone else.  So maybe it isn't the deportations or excluding people that is causing concern.

Sadly, the ban is a knee jerk reaction to an emergency that doesn't exist.  Trump did not consult people who actually understand how the immigration system works, instead he made a purely political decision and put it into action purely with his political team. The same way Chavez made economic policy.  And with the same mass unintended consequences.

Obama excluded Iraqi immigrants when an actual problem was identified that allowed several undesirable people to slip through. Everyone had to be re-vetted to make sure that whole was plugged and new applications were frozen until the existing pool was cleared.  No great outcry, because it was done for an actual reason and wasn't in a fake fear induced panic.

Rather we set up a situation where engineers who have studied and lived in the US for over a decade working for the most advanced companies in the world (Boeing, Intel, SpaceX) who were overseas for work and now can't come back to the US for an undetermined period of time because they are from a "suspect country." Students, college professors, and researchers.  Where women and children who have been vetted by a dozen agencies over 4 years can't come because we are afraid of them. 

Immigration/refugee quotas isn't the issue.  Exclude Mexicans.  Cut the number of refugees we allow in.  You won, you get to do that.  But lets do it in an orderly fashion that doesn't make us look like panicked children afraid of tragic yet remote possibilities.  Team Trump hasn't come up with a plan to "fix" the system, because no one can point out what isn't working to begin with.

The desire to exclude the tired, poor and huddled masses is an entirely different issue.  By all means, tell me you can't bake a cake for the gays while pounding your bible and then quietly set that book down and tell me how taking care of the downtrodden isn't our problem.  Theocracy isn't so popular when it requires action that you don't personally like.

[swake]

The Iraqi parliament has now voted to ask the Iraqi government to reciprocally ban Americans from entering Iraq and to expel Americans already there including US troops. If such a ban is implemented it would deal a devastating blow to US efforts to fight ISIS.

So much for "keeping us safe". Part of the last two administrations plan was to fight terrorists in other countries to keep us from having to fight them here. The ban is damaging those efforts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-donald-trump-parliament-committee-immigrant-muslim-travel-ban-reciprocal-americans-us-a7552546.html

[swake]

More than 1.25 million people in the UK have signed a government petition to have Trump's state visit to the UK canceled. Petitions with more than 100,000 signatures are debated in Parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/30/anti-trump-petition-to-prevent-uk-state-visit-passes-1m-signatures

[swake]

Fresh fighting has broken out this weekend in Ukraine. Russian backed separatists (that have Russian troops among them) launched fresh attacks killing seven Ukrainian soldiers.  This attack comes after the phone call between Putin and Trump where they agreed to work together with "partner-like co-operation" on Ukraine.

I guess that means that we will let Russia do whatever dear leader Putin wants.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38794679

[cannon_fodder]

This is well put.  I would probably encourage more immigration that Lankford would, and we can disagree on that.  And I can agree with this statement:


U.S. Sen. James Lankford has issued the following statement regarding President Donald Trump's executive order on immigration:

As leaders, we have a responsibility to secure the homeland. The executive action issued Friday is a 90-day pause and reevaluation of the screening process for individuals traveling from seven war-torn nations, and a 120-day pause for the refugee resettlement program. It is not a ban on Muslims or a permanent change in immigration policy. However, this executive action has some unintended consequences that were not well thought out. I encourage the president's staff to evaluate American policy with an eye on both security and compassion for the refugees fleeing the terrors of war and persecution. For decades, our resettlement program has maintained a very extensive multi-year screening process for refugees from all over the world. There are unique challenges when you accept refugees from countries like Syria and Yemen, but our American security and intelligence communities are the best in the world. America can have strong homeland security and uphold our foundational values of religious freedom and refuge for the persecuted. These goals are not mutually exclusive. We should also encourage, not discourage, people who have gone through the legal visa and immigration process. America has always welcomed people from different walks of life, religions and countries, and we should continue doing so.

[swake]

This is well put.  I would probably encourage more immigration that Lankford would, and we can disagree on that.  And I can agree with this statement:


U.S. Sen. James Lankford has issued the following statement regarding President Donald Trump's executive order on immigration:

Iran is "war torn"? How?

And the Sudanese civil war is in the new country of South Sudan, not Sudan itself, and South Sudan isn't even part of the order. The Trump Administration probably doesn't even know that South Sudan is a country now. Just plain stupid.

[swake]

In Trump's America court orders don't mean anything anymore.

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents defied the orders of federal judges regarding Donald Trump's travel bans on Sunday, according to members of Congress and attorneys who rallied protests around the country in support of detained refugees and travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries.
On Sunday afternoon, four Democratic members of the House of Representatives arrived at Dulles airport in Virginia on word that people had been detained and denied access to lawyers.
"We have a constitutional crisis today," representative Don Beyer wrote on Twitter. "Four members of Congress asked CBP officials to enforce a federal court order and were turned away."

This is totally constitutional and isn't at all Fascist. Not even a little bit.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/customs-border-protection-agents-trump-muslim-country-travel-ban

[BKDotCom]

Iran is "war torn"? How?

"Alternative Facts"

[heironymouspasparagus]

The Iraqi parliament has now voted to ask the Iraqi government to reciprocally ban Americans from entering Iraq and to expel Americans already there including US troops. If such a ban is implemented it would deal a devastating blow to US efforts to fight ISIS.

So much for "keeping us safe". Part of the last two administrations plan was to fight terrorists in other countries to keep us from having to fight them here. The ban is damaging those efforts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-donald-trump-parliament-committee-immigrant-muslim-travel-ban-reciprocal-americans-us-a7552546.html

We have been talking about stuff like this for well over a year.   I know you cannot possibly be surprised by anything this clown is doing or going to do.

[swake]

We have been talking about stuff like this for well over a year.   I know you cannot possibly be surprised by anything this clown is doing or going to do.

We have, but Trumpers have been saying that we take him too literally and that he should be given a chance, that we should wait and see what he actually does.

Well here we are. And his actions are actually dumber and meaner than I thought they would be, and we are all of eight days in.

[cannon_fodder]

Iran is "war torn"? How?

And the Sudanese civil war is in the new country of South Sudan, not Sudan itself, and South Sudan isn't even part of the order. The Trump Administration probably doesn't even know that South Sudan is a country now. Just plain stupid.

On Iran, I think we consider "defectors" as refugees, and certainly a large number of persecuted people would qualify for asylum. But I didn't say it was 100% accurate, but the sentiment is at least rational. 

[swake]

Trump's had enough, he's going to Florida for the weekend. Aside from his being so "low energy" he needs a vacay less than two weeks into the job, but as expected he's going to stay at his Mar a Lago resort and mingle with all those common people that just had their membership fees doubled to $200k. You don't have to donate to Trump's campaign to get access like a normal politician, now you can now give $200k directly to Trump's pocket and have him come to you.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316890-trump-headed-to-mar-a-lago-for-the-weekend

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/mar-a-lago-membership-fee-doubles-to-200000.html