President Trump- The Implications

[patric]

We have, but Trumpers have been saying that we take him too literally and that he should be given a chance, that we should wait and see what he actually does.

Well here we are. And his actions are actually dumber and meaner than I thought they would be, and we are all of eight days in.

Sofar hes been great for business.

The 5 Biggest Tech Companies Lost $32 Billion Over Donald Trump's Muslim Ban
http://fortune.com/2017/01/30/donald-trump-muslim-ban-tech-companies/


Now that we have a real-life Goldfinger sort of, you have to wonder if other countries have considered how they might deal with him when he starts looking for the big red button.

[swake]

Well, it may well be that the travel ban for those seven countries have now killed more American residents than terrorists from those seven countries ever have.

A local business owner flies to Iraq to bring his mother back home to the US for medical treatment. But under President Trump's ban on immigration and travel from seven predominately Muslim nations, he said he was forced to leave his family behind.

Mike Hager fled Iraq with his family during the Gulf War, returned during the Iraq war and worked alongside United States Marines and Army forces. He now owns a business in Metro Detroit and said his mom would still be alive today if President Donald Trump had not instituted his travel ban on Muslim countries.

Hager said he was returning home with his family that included his sick mom. They were returning home to the United States where his mother has lived since 1995. As they were waiting in line at the airport in Iraq on Friday, he was told that he could pass through because he was a U.S. citizen. But his family members - including his mom - weren't allowed, despite holding green cards.

Detroit family caught in Iraq travel ban, says mom died waiting to come home
"They destroyed us. I went with my family, I came back by myself. They destroyed our family," Hager said.

Hager was born in Iraq and fled during the Gulf War. He lived in a refugee camp with his family for four years before settling in the United States. In the 2000s, he returned to Iraq where he worked as a contractor for the United States armed forces between 2003 and 2008 as an interpreter and cultural advisor. He even survived being shot in the back while serving.

He's a proud American citizen whose family has now been torn apart.

"The immigration told us that the President of the United States put an order right now - you guys cannot go," he told FOX 2's Amy Lange.

Hager said he was traveling with  his niece, two nephews, and his 75-year-old mother, Naimma, home to Michigan. He said they traveled to Iraq to visit family and when she fell ill but didn't expect it to be a problem for the family to travel since they all had green cards and had lived in the United States for 20 years.

"I was just shocked. I had to put my mom back on the wheelchair and take her back and call the ambulance and she was very very upset. She knew right there if we send her back to the hospital she's going to pass away - she's not going to make it," Hager said.

Sadly, he was right. He said Naimma, who lived in the United States since 1995, wasn't allowed to come home and he said she died in her native country. Hager said if it weren't for the order, his mom would still be alive today.

He blames her death on President Trump.

"I really believe this in my heart: if they would have let us in, my mom - she would have made it and she would have been sitting right here next to me," Hager said. "She's gone because of him."

Just as the family was traveling, President Trump signed an executive order banning travelers from seven majority-Muslim countries.

Travelers from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia are banned from traveling to the United States for 90 days so the country can detect "individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States."

Hager says he has no idea when his nephews and niece will be able to return to the United States and he's worried about his own status - even though he is an American citizen.

"This is our home. We've been here for too long, we've been here since we were kids," Hager said. "If I'm not wanted overseas in Iraq and I'm not wanted here, then where do I go? What am I supposed to do with my family?"

Hager is mourning more than his mother; he's also mourning the way of life he believes that makes America great. He also has this message for the Commander in Chief:

"You have to understand you have a daughter - you have family - imagine if somebody does that to your mom. You put the terrorists on this side - the bad people - but don't mix everyone together," Hager said.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/232856168-story

[Conan71]

If she was so sick she passed that quickly she likely would not have been fit to travel in the first place and no doctor in their right mind would clear someone for air travel in that state.  Here's the other problem with this story: according to the Boston Globe's timeline, Trump signed the ban at 4:43 PM on Friday.  That was 12:43am in Baghdad, Saturday.

Sorry, I'm casting a wary eye at anything passing for news these days.

/edit

Then this was added to the link on your story:

DETROIT (WJBK) - The leader of a mosque in Dearborn has confirmed to FOX 2 that a man who claimed his mother died in Iraq after being barred from returning to the United States under a ban instituted by President Trump this weekend, lied to FOX 2 about when her death occurred. CLICK HERE FOR MORE DETAILS

Imam confirms Hager's story was a fabrication.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/233053942-story

[TulsaMoon]

You people................

So this is a TRUMP thing yes?? Pull your head out of your arse...

In an exclusive interview on Thursday with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos, President Obama noted that "battle hardened" foreign fighters in Syria are increasingly slipping over porous borders and joining terrorist groups in Iraq, where the group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria -- or ISIS -- is now wreaking havoc.

Though al Qaeda denounced and cut ties with ISIS earlier this year, elements of both groups are committed to attacks against the West.

"Then they come back, they've got European passports ... [and] don't need a visa to get into the United States," the president said of certain foreign fighters

http://abcnews.go.com/US/syria-threat-prompt-airports/story?id=24351979

We have a man in the White House willing to tell you and me to F'ck off, that his #1 priority is to protect this nation PERIOD and you want to call him a fool for doing so? You want to say that HE is banning Muslims and that's all this is about? Banning Muslims??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???

OBAMA SAW THIS!! He tried to do something as well and YOU supported him! YOU DID because he was your Lord and Savior and I did because he was doing the RIGHT thing. But now because there is a Conservative in the White house you denounce the SAME action??

In issuing his ban on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries, President Trump relied on a 65-year-old provision of the federal Immigration and Nationality Act.
The provision gives presidents broad authority to ban individual immigrants or groups of immigrants. Presidents haven't hesitated to use it.
Barack Obama invoked it 19 times, Bill Clinton 12 times, George W. Bush six times and Ronald Reagan five times. George H.W. Bush invoked it once.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-immigrant-ban-history-20170130-story.html

Every single one of you should be ashamed for being so transparent on what fools you really are. You are the reason this country is so at odds with each other for spreading such dishonest hatred. You elected a man that did it 19 times!! 19 times!!!! Trump has done it once for the EXACT same reason that President Obama did but you will not support him for doing the SAME THING!!

The difference is Trump is a man that says why he is doing it and doesn't hide the facts. And that's why you cant handle it. You need sugar coating, you need to be told something different than what it really is.

Obama:

His broadest application of the law came in 2011, when he suspended entry of foreigners "who participate in serious human rights and humanitarian law violations and other abuses," including "widespread or systemic violence against any civilian population" based on, among other factors, race, color, disability, language, religion, ethnicity, political opinion, national origin, sexual orientation or gender identity.

You will except that explanation yes? You will because it's President Obama saying this.

And every one of you will bash and say I am so wrong. All I am doing is quoting President Obama and telling you the facts. But in your eyes it is NOT the facts, not at all. AGAIN, that's what's wrong with this country.

[rebound]

Whoa, dude,  "calm down.."

I'm supposed to be working, so will have to condense my thoughts here.

"We have a man in the White House willing to tell you and me to F'ck off".  Well, yeah, I have problem with that.  If he (Or whomever is/was the president at the time) does something that I disagree with, I expect a more rational explanation than "F'ck off".

"The difference is Trump is a man that says why he is doing it and doesn't hide the facts. And that's why you cant handle it. You need sugar coating, you need to be told something different than what it really is."  No.  Not sugar coating.  But being the President implies acting Presidential.  This isn't a TV show.  I heard it said recently that Trump needs to learn to "measure twice and cut once".  I'm not even sure the man owns a good tape measure, much less knows how to use it.   When/if (a big if...)  he starts acting like a president, he will begin to get the requisite respect.

It is not specific to policy, the travel ban may in fact be a good idea, but how it was handled was abysmal.  Just as there is a difference between "We must take serious steps to secure our Southern border", and "We're going to build a huge wall!".   How a President says and does things does matter.  That's not sugar coating, that is doing the job.   

 

[TulsaMoon]

 Don't post after drinking the Marshall beers. Though I agree with my drunk self I shouldn't have posted like that. Apologies.

[swake]

Trump's newest executive order, is a doozy. It's going to protect small investors by requiring their brokers and advisors to act for their customers benefit instead to their own benefit. Oh wait, no. It does the opposite. Obama tried to get that rule through congress, failed and then did it through the rule making process in the Department of Labor. Trump is overturning the rule to again allow brokers and retirement planners to rip off customers by generating pointless fees and trades that benefit the advisor over the investor.

Good think he's draining the swamp, right?

http://time.com/money/4659440/fiduci...-donald-trump/

[swake]

You people................

So this is a TRUMP thing yes?? Pull your head out of your arse...

In an exclusive interview on Thursday with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos, President Obama noted that "battle hardened" foreign fighters in Syria are increasingly slipping over porous borders and joining terrorist groups in Iraq, where the group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria -- or ISIS -- is now wreaking havoc.

Though al Qaeda denounced and cut ties with ISIS earlier this year, elements of both groups are committed to attacks against the West.

"Then they come back, they've got European passports ... [and] don't need a visa to get into the United States," the president said of certain foreign fighters

http://abcnews.go.com/US/syria-threat-prompt-airports/story?id=24351979

We have a man in the White House willing to tell you and me to F'ck off, that his #1 priority is to protect this nation PERIOD and you want to call him a fool for doing so? You want to say that HE is banning Muslims and that's all this is about? Banning Muslims??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???

OBAMA SAW THIS!! He tried to do something as well and YOU supported him! YOU DID because he was your Lord and Savior and I did because he was doing the RIGHT thing. But now because there is a Conservative in the White house you denounce the SAME action??

In issuing his ban on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries, President Trump relied on a 65-year-old provision of the federal Immigration and Nationality Act.
The provision gives presidents broad authority to ban individual immigrants or groups of immigrants. Presidents haven't hesitated to use it.
Barack Obama invoked it 19 times, Bill Clinton 12 times, George W. Bush six times and Ronald Reagan five times. George H.W. Bush invoked it once.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-immigrant-ban-history-20170130-story.html

Every single one of you should be ashamed for being so transparent on what fools you really are. You are the reason this country is so at odds with each other for spreading such dishonest hatred. You elected a man that did it 19 times!! 19 times!!!! Trump has done it once for the EXACT same reason that President Obama did but you will not support him for doing the SAME THING!!

The difference is Trump is a man that says why he is doing it and doesn't hide the facts. And that's why you cant handle it. You need sugar coating, you need to be told something different than what it really is.

Obama:

His broadest application of the law came in 2011, when he suspended entry of foreigners "who participate in serious human rights and humanitarian law violations and other abuses," including "widespread or systemic violence against any civilian population" based on, among other factors, race, color, disability, language, religion, ethnicity, political opinion, national origin, sexual orientation or gender identity.

You will except that explanation yes? You will because it's President Obama saying this.

And every one of you will bash and say I am so wrong. All I am doing is quoting President Obama and telling you the facts. But in your eyes it is NOT the facts, not at all. AGAIN, that's what's wrong with this country.

Here is how Obama used it, from your own cited source. It's not remotely similar to how Trump just used it.

Obama

He turned to the provision more than any other recent president, using it to bar people who conducted certain transactions with North Korea, engaged in cyberattacks aimed at undermining democracy or contributed to the destabilization of Libya, Burundi, Central African Republic or Ukraine.

His broadest application of the law came in 2011, when he suspended entry of foreigners "who participate in serious human rights and humanitarian law violations and other abuses," including "widespread or systemic violence against any civilian population" based on, among other factors, race, color, disability, language, religion, ethnicity, political opinion, national origin, sexual orientation or gender identity.

Obama has also used the law to block anybody involved in "grave human rights abuses by the governments of Iran and Syria" through the use of communications technology to disrupt computer networks or provide monitoring or tracking.

Obama used it against individuals and groups of individuals that participate in certain behavior. Not the same thing at all.

[TulsaMoon]

Of course! How could I have been so blind to this. You are right, ISIS never ever caused " Wide spread or systemic violence against any civilian population. It never did anything based on factors such as Religion or Race or especially gay people, Never ever did they do that. They can't be the individuals or groups President Obama spoke of, no of course not. Must have been those pesky Buddhist terrorists.

Explain to me the difference (other than they way it was put out by Trump) between the temporary bans President Obama invoked 19 times and Trump has done once. That's 19 different times that need explained.

I supported President Obama when he did it because as he said himself they go back to Syria from Iraq and they've got European passports and bam, right in the USA they come. He was right, do you deny he did it for the reasons HE stated?

[swake]

Of course! How could I have been so blind to this. You are right, ISIS never ever caused " Wide spread or systemic violence against any civilian population. It never did anything based on factors such as Religion or Race or especially gay people, Never ever did they do that. They can't be the individuals or groups President Obama spoke of, no of course not. Must have been those pesky Buddhist terrorists.

Explain to me the difference (other than they way it was put out by Trump) between the temporary bans President Obama invoked 19 times and Trump has done once. That's 19 different times that need explained.

I supported President Obama when he did it because as he said himself they go back to Syria from Iraq and they've got European passports and bam, right in the USA they come. He was right, do you deny he did it for the reasons HE stated?

In what way did what Trump do make us safer than what Obama was doing?

[Ed W]

Maybe we can approach this from basic grade school math. Remember sets and subsets? "Muslim" is a set. "Syrian" is a subset of "Muslim." "ISIS" is a subset of "Syrian." The subset "ISIS" is not equal to the sets "Muslim" or "Syrian" no matter how much Trump or his minions insist on it, just as "McVeigh and Nichols" are not equal to "All Christians."

[swake]

Maybe we can approach this from basic grade school math. Remember sets and subsets? "Muslim" is a set. "Syrian" is a subset of "Muslim." "ISIS" is a subset of "Syrian." The subset "ISIS" is not equal to the sets "Muslim" or "Syrian" no matter how much Trump or his minions insist on it, just as "McVeigh and Nichols" are not equal to "All Christians."

Exactly.

And when you ban a larger set than the subset you need to make us safe from, it tends to anger that larger set creating a larger problem. Like Iraq now threatening to kick out the American soldiers now helping with the fight against ISIS in Mosul. Trump's ban has made us less safe and has isolated us.

[Hoss]

Exactly.

And when you ban a larger set than the subset you need to make us safe from, it tends to anger that larger set creating a larger problem. Like Iraq now threatening to kick out the American soldiers now helping with the fight against ISIS in Mosul. Trump's ban has made us less safe and has isolated us.

OK, so now you guys are using math.

That confuses a Trump die-hard supporter more so than facts do.

[heironymouspasparagus]

So this is a TRUMP thing yes?? Pull your head out of your arse...


We have a man in the White House willing to tell you and me to F'ck off, that his #1 priority is to protect this nation PERIOD and you want to call him a fool for doing so? You want to say that HE is banning Muslims and that's all this is about? Banning Muslims??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???

In issuing his ban on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries, President Trump relied on a 65-year-old provision of the federal Immigration and Nationality Act.
The provision gives presidents broad authority to ban individual immigrants or groups of immigrants. Presidents haven't hesitated to use it.
Barack Obama invoked it 19 times, Bill Clinton 12 times, George W. Bush six times and Ronald Reagan five times. George H.W. Bush invoked it once.

Every single one of you should be ashamed for being so transparent on what fools you really are. You are the reason this country is so at odds with each other for spreading such dishonest hatred. You elected a man that did it 19 times!! 19 times!!!! Trump has done it once for the EXACT same reason that President Obama did but you will not support him for doing the SAME THING!!

The difference is Trump is a man that says why he is doing it and doesn't hide the facts. And that's why you cant handle it. You need sugar coating, you need to be told something different than what it really is.

And every one of you will bash and say I am so wrong. All I am doing is quoting President Obama and telling you the facts. But in your eyes it is NOT the facts, not at all. AGAIN, that's what's wrong with this country.

Sounds like someone is turning into Breitbart fanboy.... Step away from the edge!!


A big portion of this "ban" was solely arbitrary and capricious blanket coverage of an undefined group of people who were already under the visa program of the US Dept of State.  "Banning" people who are already vetted and possess legal visas, or legal residents of the US is not an act of protection for anyone.  It is an attempt to flex the tyrannical edict muscle that is planned to be implemented on much wider scale.  It most likely is also illegal without additional due process when applied to that group of people.

And it does follow that the same situation exists for the people executing that order.   As we are starting to see by the court rulings related to this little tin-horn dicktator game he is playing - it is illegal.

Early days, but this is very likely to play out as being an actual, real world, true to life, Overreach of Presidential authority - what the extremist right wing keeps spewing about, but hasn't happened until just the last week or so.  Where is Faux News outrage??  With their "good buddy" alt-right Breitbart David Dukes style Klanfan extremist Trump.

[Conan71]

Though al Qaeda denounced and cut ties with ISIS earlier this year, elements of both groups are committed to attacks against the West.

I had to chuckle a bit on this.  That's got to be akin to the KKK disavowing the Aryan Nation for being too racist for their comfort.