5 Story Parking Garage on 4th & Main

[MostSeriousness]

My understanding is that there were original designs (Cyntergy? KKT?) for the garage that were great. Good looking, first floor retail, streetscape. But then during the development process continuation, they threw up the design that Speck showed off (and yes, just about everyone groaned about it).

[johrasephoenix]

This is the parking garage I walk by every day on my way to class. It is very possible to make a sweet parking garage.

It's even got a Dunkin Donuts to fuel myself up on caffeine.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

I see your cool parking garage and raise you the Georgetown Car Barn

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9049099,-77.0700837,3a,78.3y,26.07h,103.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT_jR68fHlBzfaACjnGhmoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Townsend]

You guys know damned well we can't keep Owasso cheerleaders from wrecking our fountains and parking garages.



We will get what we deserve and like it.

[cannon_fodder]

I see your cool parking garage and raise you the Georgetown Car Barn

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9049099,-77.0700837,3a,78.3y,26.07h,103.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT_jR68fHlBzfaACjnGhmoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Fun fact...immediately to the left of the Car Barn (it was built to house street cars) as you look at it in the above link, are the steps from The Exorcist. 

[DTowner]

Perhaps the developer is not interested in constructing more retail space to compete with all the vacant retail space in the buildings it already owns.  Seems like a good argument why so much downtown real estate shouldn't be in the hands of one group

[brettakins]

[erfalf]

Perhaps the developer is not interested in constructing more retail space to compete with all the vacant retail space in the buildings it already owns.  Seems like a good argument why so much downtown real estate shouldn't be in the hands of one group

That scenario could end well with the right owners (see Sundance Square). I doubt anyone there is bitching that one family owns a third of downtown.

[johrasephoenix]

Or downtown Bellevue, WA with the Freemans. 

It COULD be a really good thing if the ownership group is on point and well capitalized and has a deep understanding of the different property types.  That's historically how malls were able to nail retail - they own the whole place so they can fine tune rents to get the perfect tenant mix, charging Nordstrom nothing and the Sunglass hut a fortune.

With one ownership group, you could conceivably see them treating the area as a district rather than as a group of individual buildings, making them all work together to create an attractive district for tenants and visitors.  It also gives the ownership group an incentive to figure out the Deco district perennial parking problem, where each property feels it needs to provide enough parking for itself and parking needs aren't addressed as a district.

But as we saw with Kanbar, one ownership can also be a big problem if they run into trouble or lose motivation. 

[saintnicster]

Perhaps the developer is not interested in constructing more retail space to compete with all the vacant retail space in the buildings it already owns.  Seems like a good argument why so much downtown real estate shouldn't be in the hands of one group

How much of the vacant retail space was caused by the 'developer' not doing a damn thing in downtown Tulsa for 5+ years?

[MostSeriousness]

I dunno about all that, but I'd say for sure a lot of the empty retail is because they're such large spaces. Need more smaller areas, for local retail. Just look at how fast The Boxyard filled up...

[johrasephoenix]

Elliot Nelson once said that if you build a great space, people will come.  The area around McNellie's was a wasteland when he opened up.  We all love William Franklin's store because he's made a super unique, interesting space.  The Vault also comes to mind as a super awesome use.

I think a lot of the retail spaces in the Deco District just isn't conducive to good, modern bar/restaurant/retail.  You've got really low ceilings, on Main Street it is mostly sad cubby holes under sad parking garages.  To get quality tenants in those retail locations, landlords need to rip out mezzanines and create the soaring ceilings and interesting spaces that modern destination restaurants need.  Buildings like the Philcade, Philtower, first floor of the Vandever or Sinclair buildings - you know those could have outrageously cool restaurant spaces if you put some architectural muscle into it.  

[BKDotCom]

Perhaps the developer is not interested in constructing more retail space to compete with all the vacant retail space in the buildings it already owns.  Seems like a good argument why so much downtown real estate shouldn't be in the hands of one group

If so, someone needs to educate our property owners on the 2nd law of retail:   Concentrated competition = more business for everyone.

1st law: location location location...   and a lot of what makes a location good is if there's lots of other stuff to do/see/buy nearby.

[DTowner]

Or downtown Bellevue, WA with the Freemans. 

It COULD be a really good thing if the ownership group is on point and well capitalized and has a deep understanding of the different property types.  That's historically how malls were able to nail retail - they own the whole place so they can fine tune rents to get the perfect tenant mix, charging Nordstrom nothing and the Sunglass hut a fortune.

With one ownership group, you could conceivably see them treating the area as a district rather than as a group of individual buildings, making them all work together to create an attractive district for tenants and visitors.  It also gives the ownership group an incentive to figure out the Deco district perennial parking problem, where each property feels it needs to provide enough parking for itself and parking needs aren't addressed as a district.

But as we saw with Kanbar, one ownership can also be a big problem if they run into trouble or lose motivation. 

A benevolent dictator is still a dictator.  Yes, lots of buildings in the hands of one visionary owner could mean developing areas of downtown with lots of interesting and diverse retail/dinning/drinking establishments that support one another with critical mass and foot traffic.  Or, it could mean that construction cost and profit dictate that the owner isn't going to do anything to create more vacancies or downward rent pressure for his existing spaces.

It is actually interesting that on the strip of Main between 4th and 5th, the worst looking retail spots in the Main Park Plaza are nearly all full, yet the cool spots with tons of potential along 5th between Main and Boston are nearly all empty. 

[BKDotCom]

I agree with BKDotCom:  Constructing another parking garage seems short-sighted.  Self-driving vehicles will become common soon, I think.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/10/25-of-u-s-driving-could-be-done-by-self-driving-cars-by-2030-study-finds/

Self-driving still seems to be a ways off from active public use on regular roads, but once it arrives, it could ramp very quickly, according to a new study by the Boston Consulting Group. The study found that by 2030, up to a quarter of driving miles in the U.S. could be handled by self-driving electric vehicles operating in shared service fleets in cities, due mostly to considerable cost savings for urban drivers

Nutshell:  it's coming and it's going to be very disruptive