President Hillary--The Implications

[heironymouspasparagus]

Trump was accused of walking in on naked women.  That's a bit different than showing Little Willy to an unsuspecting female, and sexually assaulting others.

It's quite common for rape victims to either keep the assault to themselves or outright deny it.  That's a known issue with rape victims.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/09/497291071/a-brief-history-of-juanita-broaddrick-the-woman-accusing-bill-clinton-of-rape

I think we can at least agree on one thing, people with wealth and power have a sense of entitlement and can get away with more than you or I could (not that I'd ever want to get away with the smile these two as$ clowns have)

Right...got it.  You still think walking in on a group of naked 15 and 16 year old girls is no biggie... Got it...

And again, NO, he was not accused of walking in on naked women.  He talked about it.  Admitted it.  Bragged about doing it.  As if it were his right.  Another big difference you don't seem to get.  And by definition, when he does that to a 15 year old girl, it is rape.  When he does it to a room full of them, it is serial rape.


As for your link, yeah, I have seen it before and read it.  Let's see if you will read this one...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick

[heironymouspasparagus]

As far as the rape allegation from Ivana Trump, she has since walked it back.  I think we can agree that ABC would be as non-partisan a source as you could find, yes?

Just like Juanita Broaddrick "walked back" her accusations of Billy Bob.  But you are now willing to give Trump a pass, but still condemn BB.

[Conan71]

Right...got it.  You still think walking in on a group of naked 15 and 16 year old girls is no biggie... Got it...

And again, NO, he was not accused of walking in on naked women.  He talked about it.  Admitted it.  Bragged about doing it.  As if it were his right.  Another big difference you don't seem to get.  And by definition, when he does that to a 15 year old girl, it is rape.  When he does it to a room full of them, it is serial rape.


As for your link, yeah, I have seen it before and read it.  Let's see if you will read this one...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick

From your link, an eye witness who shared a room with Broaddrick corroborates her account, so what was your point in posting the wiki link?

Broaddrick shared the hotel room with her friend and employee Norma Rogers. Rogers attended a conference seminar that morning, and says she returned to their room to find Broaddrick on the bed "in a state of shock," her pantyhose torn in the crotch and her lip swollen as though she had been hit.[7] Rogers says Broaddrick told her Clinton had "forced himself on her."[7] Rogers helped Broaddrick ice her lip, and then the women left Little Rock. Rogers said that Broaddrick was very upset on the way home and blamed herself for letting Clinton in the room.[3] Broaddrick says she did not tell her husband, Gary Hickey, about the incident, and told him she accidentally injured her lip. He told NBC he did not remember the injury or her explanation.[3][8] David Broaddrick, however, has said he noticed her injured lip, and she told him that Clinton had raped her when he asked about it.[3] Three other friends confirmed that Broaddrick had told them about the incident at the time: Susan Lewis, Louis Ma, and Jean Darden, Norma Rogers' sister.[3] Broaddrick did not recall the date of the alleged incident, but said it was spring of 1978 and that she had stayed in the Camelot Hotel. Records show Broaddrick attended a nursing home meeting at the Camelot Hotel in Little Rock on April 25, 1978.[3][8] The Clinton White House would not respond to requests for Clinton's official schedule for the date,[9] but news reports suggest that he was in Little Rock that day, with no official commitments in the morning.[3]

Walking in on a group of naked women (or girls) on purpose or accident is nowhere close to the definition of rape.  Peeping Tom possibly.  I think you need to look up the legal definition of rape, even age doesn't make a difference on that as you assert.  

Well here, I saved you the time.  Here's the DOJ's official definition of rape, updated in 2012:

"The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition-rape

Did any contestant make claims of any penetration or unwanted advance?  No.

One would think out of all the teen contestants in the dressing room, someone's parents would have taken Trump to task at the time or had gone to the authorities, but we can find no evidence of that, can we?

So four women said Trump came in the dressing room, 11 say it either didn't happen or they don't remember.  Of the ones who say it happened, they rushed to cover their bodies so there's not even any clear statement that he saw a nude teen.  Four witnesses saying it happened and 11 questioning if it did or not remembering it seems to bring up reasonable doubt.

I'm not a Trump apologist but people have a serious problem with picking up bits of facts and creating their own reality with it.  Walking in on naked women suddenly becomes serial rape? Really?  He had no right to do it as pageant owner or interested spectator, but it's still not rape and no allegations were ever brought that it was.  

I really don't see a difference than gym or sports coaches walking through the locker room while teen athletes are showering and changing yet I don't recall that as leading to rape allegations nor anyone talking about it being creepy when I was a teen.  Well, except Trump is a creep.

Still you don't have a legit claim to rape, that's just hyperbole.

:

Four women who competed in the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant said Donald Trump walked into the dressing room while contestants — some as young as 15 — were changing.

"I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, 'Oh my god, there's a man in here,' " said Mariah Billado, the former Miss Vermont Teen USA.

Trump, she recalled, said something like, "Don't worry, ladies, I've seen it all before."

Three other women, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of getting engulfed in a media firestorm, also remembered Trump entering the dressing room while girls were changing. Two of them said the girls rushed to cover their bodies, with one calling it "shocking" and "creepy." The third said she was clothed and introduced herself to Trump.

The story also reported:

Of the 11 (contestants) who said they don't remember Trump coming into the changing room, some said it was possible that it happened while they weren't in the room or that they didn't notice. But most were dubious or dismissed the possibility out of hand.

Allison Bowman, former Miss Wisconsin Teen USA, cast doubt on whether it happened. "These were teenage girls," Bowman said. "If anything inappropriate had gone on, the gossip would have flown."

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/oct/18/allegations-about-donald-trump-and-miss-teen-usa-c/

None of the women who talked to BuzzFeed News said Trump touched them or said anything explicit. Meanwhile, 11 other contestants didn't remember seeing Trump walk into the dressing area. The Trump campaign has called these stories "totally false."

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-beauty-pageants-naked-2dc4b6c6d507/

Even from a far left site, their story states Trump never touched anyone nor said anything explicit.  Let's see you document how this becomes rape.

Trump is a creep, we all get it, there's no need to try and convince anyone of it.  Yet you persist in trying to diminish Clinton's behavior in a rape or sexual assault allegation on Clinton which had corroborating witnesses simply to make Trump look worse.  That is clearly what you are doing here.

[Conan71]

Just like Juanita Broaddrick "walked back" her accusations of Billy Bob.  But you are now willing to give Trump a pass, but still condemn BB.

As I already explained Broaddrick did what many rape victims do: deny it happened at first.  To my knowledge, she has never walked back her claims of the rape since she finally did go public with it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Wow!   Trump Apologist.


Broaddrick told two stories.  As I asked before, which one was the lie??   And she repeated the "didn't happen" story on several occasions.  Since she said it didn't happen so many times, if it did, then she is a proven liar, so why should she believed then?   Oh, yeah...testified under oath.  Billy Bob got impeached - why is she unimpeachable?

And why would she keep working for his campaign for weeks after being raped?  Voluntarily.

And even Paula Jones sister and brother in law didn't believe her...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_misconduct_allegations

[Conan71]

Wow!   Trump Apologist.


Broaddrick told two stories.  As I asked before, which one was the lie??   And she repeated the "didn't happen" story on several occasions.  Since she said it didn't happen so many times, if it did, then she is a proven liar, so why should she believed then?   Oh, yeah...testified under oath.  Billy Bob got impeached - why is she unimpeachable?

And why would she keep working for his campaign for weeks after being raped?  Voluntarily.

And even Paula Jones sister and brother in law didn't believe her...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_misconduct_allegations

Uh no.  I believe that to be a pretty fair and accurate account at least from what is publicly known about Trump's creepy behavior at his pageants and you still have not established that is rape aside from your personal opinions.  

Even faced with the facts on the Broaddrick case and known behavior of rape victims after an attack, you still are dumping on an alleged rape victim.  

Keepin' it classy, I see, just like the Clintons!  Did you work for the Clintons at some point?  I'm seeing a pattern here.

[swake]

From your link, an eye witness who shared a room with Broaddrick corroborates her account, so what was your point in posting the wiki link?

Walking in on a group of naked women (or girls) on purpose or accident is nowhere close to the definition of rape.  Peeping Tom possibly.  I think you need to look up the legal definition of rape, even age doesn't make a difference on that as you assert.  

Well here, I saved you the time.  Here's the DOJ's official definition of rape, updated in 2012:

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition-rape

Did any contestant make claims of any penetration or unwanted advance?  No.

One would think out of all the teen contestants in the dressing room, someone's parents would have taken Trump to task at the time or had gone to the authorities, but we can find no evidence of that, can we?

So four women said Trump came in the dressing room, 11 say it either didn't happen or they don't remember.  Of the ones who say it happened, they rushed to cover their bodies so there's not even any clear statement that he saw a nude teen.  Four witnesses saying it happened and 11 questioning if it did or not remembering it seems to bring up reasonable doubt.

I'm not a Trump apologist but people have a serious problem with picking up bits of facts and creating their own reality with it.  Walking in on naked women suddenly becomes serial rape? Really?  He had no right to do it as pageant owner or interested spectator, but it's still not rape and no allegations were ever brought that it was.  

I really don't see a difference than gym or sports coaches walking through the locker room while teen athletes are showering and changing yet I don't recall that as leading to rape allegations nor anyone talking about it being creepy when I was a teen.  Well, except Trump is a creep.

Still you don't have a legit claim to rape, that's just hyperbole.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/oct/18/allegations-about-donald-trump-and-miss-teen-usa-c/

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-beauty-pageants-naked-2dc4b6c6d507/

Even from a far left site, their story states Trump never touched anyone nor said anything explicit.  Let's see you document how this becomes rape.

Trump is a creep, we all get it, there's no need to try and convince anyone of it.  Yet you persist in trying to diminish Clinton's behavior in a rape or sexual assault allegation on Clinton which had corroborating witnesses simply to make Trump look worse.  That is clearly what you are doing here.

Here are 13 women who accuse Trump of groping and kissing without permission dating to the 1980s. This the pattern of a serial sexual assault.

•   Jessica Leeds  - Accused Trump of groping her on a flight in the 1980, he grabbed her breast and attempted to put his hand up her skirt. She had never met him before
•   Rachel Crooks – Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission in 2005, she was a receptionist in Trump tower and made this accusation BEFORE the Access Hollywood tape was released.
•   Natasha Stoynoff - Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission also in 2005 while she was interviewing him for People Magazine
•    Mindy McGillivray - Accused Trump of groping her butt during a photo shoot at Mar A Lago in 2003 when she was a photographers assistant
•   Cassandra Searles  - Accused Trump of "continually grabbing her donkey" at the Miss USA Pageant while she was Miss Washington in 2013
•   Temple Taggart – Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission two different times while she was the 1997 Miss Utah
•   Kristin Anderson – Accused Trump of sticking his hand up her miniskirt and into her underwear without permission while in a nightclub in the 1990s
•   Summer Zervos - Accused Trump of groping her and forcibly kissing her without permission two different times in 2007, she was a contestant on season five of the Apprentice
•   Cathy Heller - Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her at Mar A Lago in 1997 while she was having brunch with her husband and children
•   Ninni Laaksonen – Accused Trump of groping her during a taping the Late Show with David Letterman where she was appearing as Miss Finland before the 2006 Miss Universe Pageant
•   Jessica Drake - Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission and offering the porn star $10,000 to come to his room in 2006 at Lake Tahoe
•   Karena Virginia – Accused Trump of groping her breast while waiting for a car service outside the US Open
•   Jill Harth – Accused Trump of groping her and attempting to assault in 1997, she sued him for this in the 1990s

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/303122-ex-miss-finland-trump-groped-me
https://www.vox.com/2016/10/12/13265206/trump-accusations-sexual-assault
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-apprentice-contestant-sues-trump-for-defamation-for-denying-alleged-groping/2017/01/17/9c88acb2-dcd9-11e6-acdf-14da832ae861_story.html?utm_term=.9711cb325a51
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/woman-says-trump-reached-under-her-skirt-and-groped-her-in-early-1990s/2016/10/14/67e8ff5e-917d-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html?utm_term=.5f426f58937b

[Conan71]

Here are 13 women who accuse Trump of groping and kissing without permission dating to the 1980s. This the pattern of a serial sexual assault.

•   Jessica Leeds  - Accused Trump of groping her on a flight in the 1980, he grabbed her breast and attempted to put his hand up her skirt. She had never met him before
•   Rachel Crooks – Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission in 2005, she was a receptionist in Trump tower and made this accusation BEFORE the Access Hollywood tape was released.
•   Natasha Stoynoff - Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission also in 2005 while she was interviewing him for People Magazine
•    Mindy McGillivray - Accused Trump of groping her butt during a photo shoot at Mar A Lago in 2003 when she was a photographers assistant
•   Cassandra Searles  - Accused Trump of "continually grabbing her donkey" at the Miss USA Pageant while she was Miss Washington in 2013
•   Temple Taggart – Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission two different times while she was the 1997 Miss Utah
•   Kristin Anderson – Accused Trump of sticking his hand up her miniskirt and into her underwear without permission while in a nightclub in the 1990s
•   Summer Zervos - Accused Trump of groping her and forcibly kissing her without permission two different times in 2007, she was a contestant on season five of the Apprentice
•   Cathy Heller - Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her at Mar A Lago in 1997 while she was having brunch with her husband and children
•   Ninni Laaksonen – Accused Trump of groping her during a taping the Late Show with David Letterman where she was appearing as Miss Finland before the 2006 Miss Universe Pageant
•   Jessica Drake - Accused Trump of grabbing her and forcibly kissing her without permission and offering the porn star $10,000 to come to his room in 2006 at Lake Tahoe
•   Karena Virginia – Accused Trump of groping her breast while waiting for a car service outside the US Open
•   Jill Harth – Accused Trump of groping her and attempting to assault in 1997, she sued him for this in the 1990s

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/303122-ex-miss-finland-trump-groped-me
https://www.vox.com/2016/10/12/13265206/trump-accusations-sexual-assault
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-apprentice-contestant-sues-trump-for-defamation-for-denying-alleged-groping/2017/01/17/9c88acb2-dcd9-11e6-acdf-14da832ae861_story.html?utm_term=.9711cb325a51
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/woman-says-trump-reached-under-her-skirt-and-groped-her-in-early-1990s/2016/10/14/67e8ff5e-917d-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html?utm_term=.5f426f58937b

This is not surprising and I don't doubt any of this happened.  It fits somewhat of a pattern of the rich and powerful.  For the thousandth time: TRUMP IS A CREEP, AND FOR GOOD MEASURE, A PREDATOR!

Yet not a single one of these supports Heir's claim of rape at the Miss Teen pageant, does it?

I can care less about defending anyone, but facts matter in a society which seems so consumed with making up its own facts these days.

[swake]

This is not surprising and I don't doubt any of this happened.  It fits somewhat of a pattern of the rich and powerful.  For the thousandth time: TRUMP IS A CREEP, AND FOR GOOD MEASURE, A PREDATOR!

Yet not a single one of these supports Heir's claim of rape at the Miss Teen pageant, does it?

I can care less about defending anyone, but facts matter in a society which seems so consumed with making up its own facts these days.

This isn't the pattern of a creep, it's the pattern of a sexual predator.

[heironymouspasparagus]

This is not surprising and I don't doubt any of this happened.  It fits somewhat of a pattern of the rich and powerful.  For the thousandth time: TRUMP IS A CREEP, AND FOR GOOD MEASURE, A PREDATOR!

Yet not a single one of these supports Heir's claim of rape at the Miss Teen pageant, does it?

I can care less about defending anyone, but facts matter in a society which seems so consumed with making up its own facts these days.

Ok.  Let's take rape out of it.  It is child molestation.  Pedophilia.  Trump is a pedophile along with all his other criminal activity.  

[swake]

Ok.  Let's take rape out of it.  It is child molestation.  Pedophilia.  Trump is a pedophile along with all his other criminal activity.  

There are a couple of video tapes out there of Trump going up to and talking to pre-teen and young teen girls on the street telling them they are attractive and will be dating him in a few years.

He's a sicko.

Hey, where's Guido in this conversation? He's stopped bragging about Trump again.

[heironymouspasparagus]

He also said he would like to date his daughter, but I think even he felt that was too far for the public.  But given the reactions of many of his minions, they would be ok with that, too.  As long as it isn't Hillary!!

[Conan71]

Ok.  Let's take rape out of it.  It is child molestation.  Pedophilia.  Trump is a pedophile along with all his other criminal activity.  

Keep digging.  The teen pageant issue doesn't rise to molestation by any legal definition since there's no claim of physical contact.

Pedophile may still fit though, although I'm not sure that counts if he wasn't taking photos.

[swake]

Keep digging.  The teen pageant issue doesn't rise to molestation by any legal definition since there's no claim of physical contact.

Pedophile may still fit though, although I'm not sure that counts if he wasn't taking photos.

Being a peeping tom is still illegal and is a sex crime.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Keep digging. 

Keep rationalizing.  You're recovery seems to have stalled.