Amazon

[Hoss]

http://www.kansas.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article2411676.html

Apparently they ran out 5 years after the incentives...   And turned down new ones.   Oh wait, those facts don't fit your agenda.   Go ahead, spin it whichever way you want.

[heironymouspasparagus]

http://www.kansas.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article2411676.html

Apparently they ran out 5 years after the incentives...   And turned down new ones.   Oh wait, those facts don't fit your agenda.   Go ahead, spin it whichever way you want.

No agenda on that at all...couldn't care less whether they stay in Coffeyville.  Was just stating the fact that they came, got their money, and left.   How is that you seen an agenda in that?  


They left for other reasons than just the money - transportation is just too big an issue for Coffeyville.  No major roads.  No major airport facility.  The surprise is that they went there in the first place.  Shocking actually....

[sgrizzle]

Didn't they just agree to put one in OKC?    Do they put them that close together?

http://kfor.com/2018/04/17/report-amazon-to-bring-fulfillment-center-to-oklahoma-city/

I would suspect they are negotiating with both. Could do one or the other or both.

[Conan71]

No agenda on that at all...couldn't care less whether they stay in Coffeyville.  Was just stating the fact that they came, got their money, and left.   How is that you seen an agenda in that?  


They left for other reasons than just the money - transportation is just too big an issue for Coffeyville.  No major roads.  No major airport facility.  The surprise is that they went there in the first place.  Shocking actually....

I think Coffeyville fit their early model pretty well and provided cheap real estate and labor.  As their model grew to next day deliveries as well as getting into all sorts of consumer goods it just out-moded itself as you said needing to be in areas with better multi-modal shipping capabilities. 

Do you happen to remember what that warehouse was prior to Amazon taking it over?  I know it had languished for awhile and people were doing back flips when someone was actually interested in it.

[BKDotCom]

Do you happen to remember what that warehouse was prior to Amazon taking it over?  I know it had languished for awhile and people were doing back flips when someone was actually interested in it.

"The original facility was built-to-suit as a distribution center for Golden Books in 1978"

[cannon_fodder]

Why would they have accepted new incentives in Coffeyville if they were intending to close down the plant?  Companies love incentives, I mean free money right?  But for most types of plants, incentives generally can't make a place otherwise unsuitable suddenly become a destination.  When Coffeyville no longer fit the distribution model for Amazon, the free money wasn't enough to tip the scale.

I'm addicted to Amazon, I'd love to see an Amazon presence in Tulsa.  But I fear they are better at playing the incentive game than we are, and if they are really looking into building a new center in Tulsa, I'm guessing they will want to play.  More and more my gut is telling me that cities are not coming out ahead on these packages.  A recent study looked at Amazon Fulfillment deals just as one is going to go in Fresno:  Amazon jobs may not be worth all the tax breaks cities give, study says.

The actual report, which includes a summary on the first few pages:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4402413/EPI-Amazon-Jobs.pdf

That's one study and I didn't look at it too closely, but I hope we don't get too excited and start writing checks because "big name" and "jobs" sounds good...

[TeeDub]

The incentives ran out, and so did they...!

They left for other reasons than just the money - transportation is just too big an issue for Coffeyville.  

And this inane chatter is why I still wish there was an ignore button.   You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth and expect people to take you seriously.   You should go at least 4-5 posts before you contradict yourself.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think Coffeyville fit their early model pretty well and provided cheap real estate and labor.  As their model grew to next day deliveries as well as getting into all sorts of consumer goods it just out-moded itself as you said needing to be in areas with better multi-modal shipping capabilities.  

Do you happen to remember what that warehouse was prior to Amazon taking it over?  I know it had languished for awhile and people were doing back flips when someone was actually interested in it.

No, I don't.  It was something that was in and out very quickly, though.  Used to drive that road a lot, since I was about 0 years old... I can remember it being built and there was a lot of activity for a few years, then all of a sudden it just stopped.     Large gap and all of a sudden it was Amazon - the boy drove for a place here in town that did a lot of shipping for them - it was pretty much all books at that time.  He told me their participation ended around 08 or 09.  Could have been Amazon building it, stopping, then starting up again...?

Haven't been by in about 5 yrs, so no idea what is happening now.  May need to go visit some relatives just to see what is happening in southeast KS these days...


Edit;  I see BKDotCom gave the answer.  Sounds familiar.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And this inane chatter is why I still wish there was an ignore button.   You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth and expect people to take you seriously.   You should go at least 4-5 posts before you contradict yourself.

Awww....poor thing...can only support one thought at a time...!  


It is never 1 issue that makes a company move into that big an investment, or move out of it.  There is a list of things that affect that decision - incentives, transportation, labor, facilities, utilities.  ALL of which boil down to the number of dollars.  Take away incentives (minus dollars), change the trucking dynamics (minus dollars), you eventually get enough minus dollars as compared to somewhere else such that you move.  Other things no doubt entered into the bottom line calculations, too.  That is what they did - added it all up and took a hike.    Sad you can't see that - polythoughtism versus monothoughtism....

As for them not accepting further incentives - that usually implies a reciprocal commitment, and at that point, they already new that the facility was gonna be abandoned in a relatively short time - within a few years.   They were unwilling to make that commitment.  This wasn't just a case of waking up one day and deciding it's moving day.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm addicted to Amazon, I'd love to see an Amazon presence in Tulsa.  But I fear they are better at playing the incentive game than we are, and if they are really looking into building a new center in Tulsa, I'm guessing they will want to play.  More and more my gut is telling me that cities are not coming out ahead on these packages.  A recent study looked at Amazon Fulfillment deals just as one is going to go in Fresno:

That's one study and I didn't look at it too closely, but I hope we don't get too excited and start writing checks because "big name" and "jobs" sounds good...

I think we have done a great job of making Tulsa (and northeast OK) more attractive to others for quite a while and feel like there could be some entities considering us if we (as a state) stop shooting ourselves in the feet - not just foot, but feet!!   The things we keep doing over and over just won't overcome the attractive lifestyle that is coming to fruition in town.  As has been gone over, repeatedly:  Education.  Infrastructure - roads, bridges, etc.  Turnpikes - stupid way to do roads if you wanna attract companies that do a lot of shipping...like manufacturing or fulfillment, etc.  Ignorant attempts to pass laws over and over that are well known to be illegal - it gives a national impression of a bunch of ignorant hicks-from-the-sticks right out of Deliverance.  (And for those who support those politicians, that is NOT a good impression!  Even though you won't understand it anyway.)

Pipe Dream:  Somewhere along the line I am hoping to see the situation reversed such that a company will want to locate here just because it is so good!  Even if it means they have to pay US to make it happen!   (Like pay taxes..!!)

[heironymouspasparagus]

Probably just coincidence...


http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-private-jet-could-reveal-a-clue-about-amazons-second-headquarters-2018-4

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Probably just coincidence...


http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-private-jet-could-reveal-a-clue-about-amazons-second-headquarters-2018-4

That's gotta be it. It's not like he owns anything else there like the Washington Post.   

[heironymouspasparagus]

That's gotta be it. It's not like he owns anything else there like the Washington Post.  

Well, that too... would make even more sense to put the headquarters in the area, then.  But they talk about that, too.  And this uptick in travel is recent.  IIRC, he has owned WP for a while before 2016 when the increase started.  And then he has that big mansion there, he bought last year, too!  He wants to be on the east coast for some reason.

[patric]

Forget Amazon, here's EPA HQ2:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/scott-pruitt-emails-directed-staff-to-set-up-new-epa/article_e3bc356b-e341-5b83-8727-1ec30202d065.html

...which could double as a travel agency:

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/386184-pruitt-had-travel-wishlist-and-asked-staff-to-find-official-reasons

"He's basically acting as a lobbyist for all of his friends."

[heironymouspasparagus]

Business as usual for Pruitt.  Following his mentor's lead - Trump.