UCAT v. TDA, land development north of 244

[TeeDub]

They could offer housing to TCC students too who want to move out of their parents house but not to Norman or Stillwater.  Offer a shuttle to the downtown campus (or they could bike), maybe also shuttle to other campuses maybe if there's demand.  Maybe a small fee to cover costs.  If we're going to settle into the TCC then OSU/OU/Langston-Tulsa model, might as well go all in and connect them as much as possible.

They have those...  They are called apartments.   Student loans pay for housing whether it be on or off campus.

Most all the advisors at OSU/NSU (my only personal experience) tell you what classes to take at TCC before finishing out your degree with them....   So they do try to work together somewhat.

[erfalf]

They have those...  They are called apartments.   Student loans pay for housing whether it be on or off campus.

Most all the advisors at OSU/NSU (my only personal experience) tell you what classes to take at TCC before finishing out your degree with them....   So they do try to work together somewhat.

And "surprisingly" (sarc) the off campus variety always manage to offer a better price point, or better options in general than campus housing. It's as if private developers are more likely to meat the demand of potential buyers better than a giant bureaucracy or something.

[erfalf]

I know it's not exactly the same, but a decade or so ago Rogers State acquired a (historically significant) building in downtown Bartlesville in order to expand their campus. I think expectations were quite high this would bring some sort of economic development to the area but as far as I can tell that hasn't really panned out. And outside of the replacement of windows for that building (which I'm sure wasn't cheap) I haven't really noticed a difference in the building itself either. But last I heard, roughly 500-600 students utilize the "campus". With the close proximity to ConocoPhillips (a major employer) and the big push for the nursing program it seemed like they had some ties that could make it work. But for the most part it seems to be utilized be local high school students who are concurrently enrolled and nursing students who work elsewhere. I'm sure it's different than OSU in many MANY regards, but both were downtown campus that had great hopes of turning the areas around, to no avail.

[swake]

I know it's not exactly the same, but a decade or so ago Rogers State acquired a (historically significant) building in downtown Bartlesville in order to expand their campus. I think expectations were quite high this would bring some sort of economic development to the area but as far as I can tell that hasn't really panned out. And outside of the replacement of windows for that building (which I'm sure wasn't cheap) I haven't really noticed a difference in the building itself either. But last I heard, roughly 500-600 students utilize the "campus". With the close proximity to ConocoPhillips (a major employer) and the big push for the nursing program it seemed like they had some ties that could make it work. But for the most part it seems to be utilized be local high school students who are concurrently enrolled and nursing students who work elsewhere. I'm sure it's different than OSU in many MANY regards, but both were downtown campus that had great hopes of turning the areas around, to no avail.

A commuter campus doesn't add to it's surroundings the same way a residential campus does. It doesn't even have the same kind of students in most cases.

[TeeDub]

A commuter campus doesn't add to it's surroundings the same way a residential campus does. It doesn't even have the same kind of students in most cases.

Less drug use and higher attendance from what I can tell.    (Sorry, seemed funny at the time.)

[swake]

Less drug use and higher attendance from what I can tell.    (Sorry, seemed funny at the time.)

Kids with munchies tend to go in search of nearby snacks.

Parents taking night classes tend to want to go home, which is miles from the school.

[SXSW]

I was going to reply to the other thread but figured this was a better place to keep this discussion.  I found an O'Colly (OSU student newspaper) article from October 2016 about how to reverse declining enrollment at OSU-Tulsa with some interesting quotes:

"OSU-Tulsa has been struggling for some time with its enrollment," according to the faculty council meeting minutes. "Politically, it is not possible just to close it. There is a role it can play, but we are currently sorting this out."

Enrollment at OSU-Tulsa, which opened in 1999, has steadily declined since 2012, according to OSU data. OSU-Tulsa President Howard Barnett told the O'Colly the campus saw an increase in enrollment after the Great Recession but has struggled since those students graduated.

As a part of the legislation passed in the late 1990s, OSU-Tulsa inherited the campus formerly known as the University Center at Tulsa, which offered upper-division and graduate courses from OSU, the University of Oklahoma, Northeastern State University and Langston University.

As part of a political and legal agreement, OSU-Tulsa can't offer any freshman and sophomore courses and is prohibited from offering the same majors as Langston-Tulsa.

"Accounting hurts; psychology hurts; those are our two most inquired about programs that we don't have, but it's the law," Barnett said.

Sandefur told the O'Colly closing the Tulsa campus is something that has been talked about but not seriously considered.

When OSU-Tulsa opened in 1999, former OSU President Jim Halligan's vision was to have 20,000 students enrolled at the campus by 2020.

With its current enrollment at 2,400 students, it's unlikely the campus will meet the proposed goal.

"That was my vision at the time, and indeed the probability it will be realized by 2020 is indeed remote," said Sen. Halligan, R-Stillwater.

Halligan said he supported the creation of OSU-Tulsa because he believed OSU needed a "vibrant" presence in Tulsa for the city to succeed.

"In order for Oklahoma to succeed, both Tulsa and Oklahoma City must succeed — they are the economic engines of the state," Halligan said.

He said he believes making OSU-Tulsa larger is one of the keys to Tulsa's growth and prosperity. In the future, he would like to see more of a focus on biomedical engineering and majors tailored to healthcare, he said.

"That, to me, is a real opportunity for the future," Halligan said.

Likewise, Barnett envisions OSU-Tulsa growing and accommodating younger students.

"I see (OSU-Tulsa) growing," Barnett said. "And I see our student body, if we do this right, maybe getting a little bit younger."

Some of my thoughts:
1. If OSU doesn't want (or need) to have 20,000 students then they absolutely do not need the land west of MLK and north of 244, and it should be redeveloped into mixed-use/housing.  This is vacant land just sitting next to one of the most vibrant urban districts in the region, and there is now demand to develop it.

2. The law that hamstrings OU and OSU because of Langston needs to be changed.  There is no reason for that school to hold the city hostage like it is currently doing.  I'd like to see city leaders and Tulsa's elected state reps take on this issue.

3. OSU should recreate the master plan that they did back in the late 90's but with a more realistic goal of maybe 5,000 students (which is more than TU) and filling in the gaps around the existing campus north of 244 and east of MLK.  

4. I agree with Jim Halligan that biomedical engineering and healthcare are key programs for the future.  These programs would make more sense though to be part of the OSU Health Sciences Center which already has its own campus by the river, along with the OSU hospital downtown.  I'd like to see OSU continue to build up its medical school and health sciences programs, and let the Greenwood campus focus on programs like engineering, education, business and technology.

5. I'd like to see OSU do more research activity in Tulsa.  Maybe a second ATRC on the other side of Elgin?  Maybe a research building on the other side of 244 (old warehouses by the Gypsy coffeehouse).  I used to say the Evans Fintube would be perfect for this but I guess it's going to be a BMX facility.

http://www.ocolly.com/news/osu-taking-measures-to-improve-tulsa-campus/article_fb35928a-93ea-11e6-be1b-776729da446f.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

I was going to reply to the other thread but figured this was a better place to keep this discussion.  I found an O'Colly (OSU student newspaper) article from October 2016 about how to reverse declining enrollment at OSU-Tulsa with some interesting quotes:

We got a "4 yr university - not" just to get people to shut up about it.  At one time there was a lot of irritation due to Tulsa being left out of such an important segment of the education market.  Since that time, every step of the way, it has been an unwanted step-child to the state and has been left to wither and die.   2,400 students??  Ridiculous.  Tulsa alone could support at least a 10,000 student university, and would more likely be 20-25k if it were made into a real university.

Complacency and malicious intent reigns supreme on this as well as so many other facets of Okrahoma life!

[Dspike]

The Langston restriction is not a major impediment because Langston-Tulsa offers so few majors. The TCC restriction barring any first or second year courses makes it impossible for OSU-Tulsa to be a school you can attend for all four years and defeats any real effort to create a campus culture with dorms.

OSU-Tulsa could be a 20,000 person university if it could offer the same courses, dorms, lifestyle as OU and OSU.

[cannon_fodder]

Don't ask why this is on a geological map, but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_universities_in_Oklahoma

[DTowner]

Is NEO Broken Arrow a 4-year degree granting university?

Either way, it seems reasonable to conclude that the OSU-Tulsa experiment has failed to solve the problem.  Either through structural design defects or execution by the OSU board of regents, stalling at 2,400 students and the limited course/degree offerings does not give Tulsa anything near the true public university a city our size needs.

[SXSW]

Is NEO Broken Arrow a 4-year degree granting university?

Either way, it seems reasonable to conclude that the OSU-Tulsa experiment has failed to solve the problem.  Either through structural design defects or execution by the OSU board of regents, stalling at 2,400 students and the limited course/degree offerings does not give Tulsa anything near the true public university a city our size needs.

Exactly, now it's time to come up with a solution and get the appropriate backing from city and state leaders.  GT Bynum has been silent on this issue.

[DTowner]

Exactly, now it's time to come up with a solution and get the appropriate backing from city and state leaders.  GT Bynum has been silent on this issue.

I've never fully understood how Tulsa's higher ed options got so wrapped up with a historical black college located in a city 70+ miles from Tulsa.  If I recall correctly, the Langston component in this (going back to the old UCAT) is based on some court decree related to desegregation.  It would be nice if we had state leaders that made public higher ed in Tulsa a priority, but the past 3 governors (both Democrat and Republican) have shown little interest in anything Tulsa except our votes around election time.

[SXSW]

I've never fully understood how Tulsa's higher ed options got so wrapped up with a historical black college located in a city 70+ miles from Tulsa.  If I recall correctly, the Langston component in this (going back to the old UCAT) is based on some court decree related to desegregation.  It would be nice if we had state leaders that made public higher ed in Tulsa a priority, but the past 3 governors (both Democrat and Republican) have shown little interest in anything Tulsa except our votes around election time.

Kevin Stitt is from Tulsa and made the Republican runoff for Governor.   

[heironymouspasparagus]

Kevin Stitt is from Tulsa and made the Republican runoff for Governor.   

That ain't a good thing.   Cornett would be better than him.  Edmondson better than Cornett.