UCAT v. TDA, land development north of 244

[swake]

That has nothing to do with how "difficult" or useful a university course is. Many colleges don't accept certain credits because they want to encourage students to take more of their own classes and discourage taking classes elsewhere.

But this is you we're talking about so you probably either misquoted her or just didn't understand the nuances of it.

No, it was about the education you get at TU, the college she's graduating from next month didn't respect the educational rigor at TU.

You were denigrating the education some get at TCC, but that's a slippery slope, because there are other schools that consider TU to be not that great either.

[heironymouspasparagus]

There is an 'ebb and flow' to educational "greatness" at even the so-called "best" of schools.  TU, TCC, OU (especially!), and OSU have all had their moments.  Back in the 80's, there was a virtual 'exodus' of an alarming number of Electrical/Electronics instructors and professors from TU going to OSU.  It hurt TU a lot...for many years!   To this day, I suspect that is at least part of the reason they have not moved forward on trying to set up a PhD program in Electrical Engineering - something that has been "worked on" since at least 1968 to my direct knowledge.


Comparison moment - I have gone back recently to "review" Calculus thru Diff Eq. to see if I can still "learn" and as a refresher for some system modeling I want to pursue.  A long term project.  Found MIT online courses and downloaded the videos and have slowly been going through them.  What I have noted in particular is that MIT is no "better" - despite their reputation - then what I have taken at TJC, and TU.  And in some ways, not as good - note the large audience in the videos.  Not much "one on one" assistance going on there.


Anyone can have access to these courses and one can even get a 'certificate' by successfully completing some set of actions that I have not investigated 'cause I don't care about that.   But if one is motivated by prestigious trappings and symbols of power and elitism, you can say you got some MIT learning and have a piece of paper to back it up!!   I just wanna be able to design some PID loops using S transforms again...

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-01sc-single-variable-calculus-fall-2010/

[SXSW]

OSU needs to look at what Colorado State University is doing with their planned urban campus north of downtown Denver.  CSU is very similar to OSU in a lot of ways but sees the value of building an urban campus and research center. 

As part of the National Western Center – a redevelopment project in north Denver on the grounds of the historic National Western Stock Show – the CSU System will construct three buildings at a main crossroads in Denver.

"The global education leadership goal of the National Western Center is a powerful one, particularly given the center's focus on food, water, and health," said Becky Takeda-Tinker, president of CSU Global. "CSU Global looks forward to contributing its expertise in asynchronous online education delivery, allowing the impact of the center to have a continual and expanded reach with stakeholders around the world."

Bringing university research and work to life for the community is a core tenet of the new Denver presence.

https://source.colostate.edu/csu-system-to-break-ground-on-planned-urban-campus-in-2020/

[SXSW]

The latest, the city is seeking developer(s) for the empty lots west of MLK. 

https://www.newson6.com/clip/14959283/tulsa-seeks-plan-for-property-near-downtown?fbclid=IwAR1YRx3YADEiI10tfxXxDiorf3XZIMqfaSheXIr5BKRmR4A0BMYxtSP02xY

My dream for this area is for it to be rebuilt with a mix of single-family and urban rowhomes on the old lots north of John Hope Franklin Blvd and south of Emerson Montessori.  And higher density apartments/condos on the lots south of John Hope Franklin to I-244.  I suspect these would be very desirable as you would literally be right next to downtown and walking distance to Emerson which by TPS standards is a pretty decent elementary school.  This area also sits up higher so you would have amazing skyline views from your upstairs windows.

[Tulsan]

Interesting to hear OSU President Burns Hargis now openly talking about expanding OSU-Tulsa.  This echoes similar comments from President Gallogly at OU.  Hope this is the start of eventual expansion at both universities.  I still think there is the whole TCC and Langston issue that has to be resolved.  

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/osu-s-hargis-says-splintered-higher-education-structure-in-tulsa/article_c1e11865-68de-54dc-b764-757621c97d4e.html

Huge barrier to public higher ed growth in Tulsa has been removed.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/osu-langston-agree-to-settlement-of-near-two-decade-long-civil-rights-dispute/article_f6e5b85c-ee1f-11ea-85c8-875b72567293.html

Under this agreement, OSU will pay Langston a total of $15 million over 10 years. In return, Langston will discontinue all of its current degree programs in Tulsa except a bachelor's degree and two master's degrees in rehabilitative services, and undertake new joint programs with OSU-Tulsa in nursing and Africana studies.

OSU will then "teach out" — that is, take over — Langston's discontinued programs and be free to offer whatever other programs deemed appropriate by the state regents.

Together, the two agreements are seen as a big step toward resolving a conflict over public higher education in Tulsa stretching back more than 40 years.

[shavethewhales]

This is awesome. Especially in light of being turned down by Tesla in part due to our small technical and professional skills base (I realize it was mostly a pipe dream anyway). This will allow OSU to grow and really serve the Tulsa market and help us attract big businesses again.

Incidentally I recently started the MBA program at OSU. Really enjoying it so far. Would love to have had the option of doing a master's in civil engineering though, but the closest campus to Tulsa that offers those classes is Stillwater. Still a lot of gaps in engineering degree opportunities in this metro.

[SXSW]

Great news hopefully this allows OSU to expand its Tulsa campus and offer additional programs.  I think in 10 years Greenwood will be a very different place.

Not related to OSU but OU-Tulsa wants to expand its business programs.  https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/ous-new-business-dean-visits-tulsa-as-school-looks-to-expand-footprint/article_7b006adc-ed45-11ea-92f8-db041258fa38.html

[rebound]

Awesome News.

[Tulsan]

Great news hopefully this allows OSU to expand its Tulsa campus and offer additional programs.  I think in 10 years Greenwood will be a very different place.

Not related to OSU but OU-Tulsa wants to expand its business programs.  https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/ous-new-business-dean-visits-tulsa-as-school-looks-to-expand-footprint/article_7b006adc-ed45-11ea-92f8-db041258fa38.html

Seems unlikely given the Schusterman campus footprint, but maybe they would consider the south IDL for a building.  Many business schools have satellite campuses in the central business districts of metro areas.  I.e., University of Houston, University of Chicago, University of Colorado (Denver). 

[swake]

Now OSU needs to be able to offer 1st and 2nd year classes in Tulsa and become a real university campus.

[SXSW]

Seems unlikely given the Schusterman campus footprint, but maybe they would consider the south IDL for a building.  Many business schools have satellite campuses in the central business districts of metro areas.  I.e., University of Houston, University of Chicago, University of Colorado (Denver).  

OU has a satellite business school focusing on its MBA program at the OUHSC in OKC so it makes sense for it to be downtown.  

I don't think many fully grasp how big of an impact this will have especially if the restriction on lower level classes is lifted.  OSU could realistically build up its Greenwood campus as a stand-alone four year university with grad and research programs along with the health sciences center.  OSU could not only be one of the biggest employers downtown but in the entire city with the cluster of undergraduate/graduate programs and housing in Greenwood, the OSU hospital which could eventually be more a medical complex with the VA, and the health sciences center and National Center for Wellness & Recovery across the river.  

OU could be in a similar situation and develop its midtown property as a residential campus which would be absolutely huge for that area especially with Promenade sucking wind next door.  I'm very interested to see how the OU/TU medical partnership will continue to grow.  

[Dspike]

"I don't think many fully grasp how big of an impact this will have especially if the restriction on lower level classes is lifted."

Unfortunately, that restriction is harder to remove and a bigger impediment. I concur that this week's news is a big help. But the state law that forbids OSU and OU from offering 1st and 2nd year courses will have to be changed by legislation (and probably over the objection of TCC).

[swake]

"I don't think many fully grasp how big of an impact this will have especially if the restriction on lower level classes is lifted."

Unfortunately, that restriction is harder to remove and a bigger impediment. I concur that this week's news is a big help. But the state law that forbids OSU and OU from offering 1st and 2nd year courses will have to be changed by legislation (and probably over the objection of TCC).

This is what drives me nuts. A decision on if 1st and 2nd year courses can be offered in Tulsa at OSU and OU is likely to continue to be made to protect the health and prosperity of TCC, not the education and prosperity of the community and citizens of Tulsa. Which of course TCC was created to support.

If it were up to me, TCC downtown would become part of OSU Tulsa and TCC Southeast would become part of NSU Broken Arrow. Those schools would then be intended, at two price points, to serve 4 year degree seeking students in metro Tulsa. The other TCC campuses can remain as a community college focusing on students that are seeking 2 year degree, vocational education or students that may have not been very successful in high school working their way to qualifying for a 4 year school.

[SXSW]

This is what drives me nuts. A decision on if 1st and 2nd year courses can be offered in Tulsa at OSU and OU is likely to continue to be made to protect the health and prosperity of TCC, not the education and prosperity of the community and citizens of Tulsa. Which of course TCC was created to support.

If it were up to me, TCC downtown would become part of OSU Tulsa and TCC Southeast would become part of NSU Broken Arrow. Those schools would then be intended, at two price points, to serve 4 year degree seeking students in metro Tulsa. The other TCC campuses can remain as a community college focusing on students that are seeking 2 year degree, vocational education or students that may have not been very successful in high school working their way to qualifying for a 4 year school.

I think TCC has a place in higher education in Tulsa, and is actually one of the more comprehensive community colleges in this region.  But that is definitely at the expense of OU and OSU.  They can coexist like in many other cities. 

[LandArchPoke]

This is what drives me nuts. A decision on if 1st and 2nd year courses can be offered in Tulsa at OSU and OU is likely to continue to be made to protect the health and prosperity of TCC, not the education and prosperity of the community and citizens of Tulsa. Which of course TCC was created to support.

If it were up to me, TCC downtown would become part of OSU Tulsa and TCC Southeast would become part of NSU Broken Arrow. Those schools would then be intended, at two price points, to serve 4 year degree seeking students in metro Tulsa. The other TCC campuses can remain as a community college focusing on students that are seeking 2 year degree, vocational education or students that may have not been very successful in high school working their way to qualifying for a 4 year school.

I've always thought this too. I still think TCC should sell off the metro campus for redevelopment and then build a new campus on the OSU Tulsa campus... then it would act and feel like a four year university. You could do your first two years and then transfer to OSU while never having to switch campuses and you'd also promote better collaboration between various groups. You'd also create a much higher demand for student housing around the campus.

I think they should also do the same thing near OU Tulsa if TCC bought Promenade. Tear out the middle portion of the enclosed mall and convert the department stores into classroom space and then turn the middle portion of the mall into an outdoor lifestyle center type retail. You could also build student housing too on the surface lots and you already have several parking garages to accommodate parking for all the development. You'd then have two campuses in Tulsa that function just like a four year university in a relatively short time without the political battle of TCC versus OSU/OU.

Make the courses offered at these two locations align with what degrees are being offered at OSU/OU so the transition is seamless (which is already is pretty easy to transfer between both)

Then turn Southeast into the main TCC campus with the West and North campuses as satellite campuses. 

One of the biggest problems with Tulsa higher ed is it is so fragmented and there's no critical mass to any one campus that creates any larger economic driver around it that you see around larger schools in major cities.