The "this has nothing to do with Tulsa" mega-post

[Laramie]

Thanks for sharing that! Didn't realize there was a board about Tulsa developments over there. Good to see that some in OKC are informed about Tulsa developments. There was a lot of chatter about how much better and more advanced OKC is when the "Ikea to OKC" rumor started (i.e: https://old.reddit.com/r/oklahoma/comments/9lcx5e/ikea_considering_oklahoma_city/e765878/) and seems like most in OKC don't understand what all is going on in Tulsa (We had CostCo yeard before OKC is getting one, Tulsa has an Urban Outfitters, had uber/lyft first and has a Trader Joe's. The recently completed Gathering Place is the best most-expensive city park in the United States.).

Tulsa was behind in the urban revival it was late to add taxes to pay for improvements and also because most of Tulsa's midtown areas (Like Maple Ridge, Brookside, Florence Park, Yorktown, Utica Square, Cherry Street, Ranch Acres, Bryan Mahr, etc) were thriving throughout its history so there was nothing to renew. OKC's urban core was pretty much gutted economically for several decades so it had nowhere to go but up with ample cheap land/houses for developers. Commercial/Industrial land in the core of Tulsa remained pretty pricey and industry continued pretty thoroughly in a lot of the run down neighborhoods (although housing in a few inner-city neighborhoods got really cheap for a while). Now its especially tough to buy anything except at the "developer price".

OKC was smart getting a head start in urban development but Tulsa has definitely caught up with better more complete urban districts that are surrounded by very nice housing. OKC has nice urban areas too and larger more-developed downtown. Tulsa has nothing like Bricktown, but has nicer high-end urban districts thanks to rich folk sticking around since the homes were first built (Cherry Street, Utica Square, Maple Ridge/Brookside). Compare the Tulsa Arts District to Bricktown to see the difference between Tulsa and OKC overall (Generic/Corporate/kitschy/Family-friendly/suburban vs Unique/Organic/Improvised/Artsy/local). Both are nice and I know OKC has plenty of more artsy areas like Paseo, but so does Tulsa (Pearl and Whittier Districts). I've been to OKC a number of times throughout my life. Cool to see the changes, but also glad that Tulsa is holding its own now so that there's not as much of a need to go visit OKC.

Oh so true!  

What results in the success in all of the developments in both our major cities; we become victims of successful progress.  You are spot on about the inexpensive land that laid barren for decades in OKC; development helped to spur more development.

Brighter days are ahead for OKC-TUL; moderate growth does give us ample time to do strategic planning not brought on by hast.  It does give you a chance to re-calibrate.

Tulsa Vision 2025 & OKC MAPS & general obligation bonds are voter approved initiatives that will reap future benefits for both cities.  

[Tulsasooner78]

Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave.   I live in Tulsa and spend a lot of time in OKC and you are coming off dumb.   We should be spending more time focusing on population growth, sales tax growth, and attracting large employers like OKC instead of wondering why a larger city may  get an IKEA first.  We worry to much about losing our self perceived cool factor that we forget about the real important things that create a vibrant city.   What will attract sales tax growth, population growth and large employers?   We need to get our head of the sand and work harder to compete with OKC.   Sadly,  We are still pretty far behind.  What would we do with out Mr. Kaiser?  He has single handily been responsible for a significant portion of investment in this city (Guthrie Green, Brady District, Gathering Place and Etc.).  All of us need to do more to make this city where OTHERS want to live.  Who gives a crap about IKEA?  How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave. 

Who cares if Costco considered OKC first? They built in Tulsa years prior. Uber was in Tulsa first, in early 2014. It came to OKC later in 2014.


I didn't compare "everything" in Tulsa to Bricktown. I compared the largest urban district in each city to each other. I know of those other districts in OKC and I've been to all of them multiple times. I specifically mentioned OKC has plenty of other urban/arts districts. I didn't mention Blue Dome, SOBO, East Village or Deco Districts in Tulsa either.

The residential areas around the core OKC districts aren't quite as nice or filled in as Tulsa's Brookside or Cherry Street. OKC had much more severe white-flight and they didn't maintain the city core as much in earlier decades so it was much more ripe for rebuilding and they have done that pretty well, but plenty of junky houses and empty lots in their core urban areas. Mesta Park is an exception and Midtown had huge improvements the last decade and is really filling in.

[AngieB]

Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave.   I live in Tulsa and spend a lot of time in OKC and you are coming off dumb.   We should be spending more time focusing on population growth, sales tax growth, and attracting large employers like OKC instead of wondering why a larger city may  get an IKEA first.  We worry to much about losing our self perceived cool factor that we forget about the real important things that create a vibrant city.   What will attract sales tax growth, population growth and large employers?   We need to get our head of the sand and work harder to compete with OKC.   Sadly,  We are still pretty far behind.  What would we do with out Mr. Kaiser?  He has single handily been responsible for a significant portion of investment in this city (Guthrie Green, Brady District, Gathering Place and Etc.).  All of us need to do more to make this city where OTHERS want to live.  Who gives a crap about IKEA?  How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

Your first post and you have called a long-time member of the forum an idiot and dumb. Please be more respectful.

[heironymouspasparagus]

m

[SXSW]

How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

Some of these items were part of the latest Vision Tulsa sales tax extension.  And the convention center has been expanded and renovated, including a current project to replace the arena.  A convention hotel is planned as part of the Arena District master plan.

[swake]

Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave.   I live in Tulsa and spend a lot of time in OKC and you are coming off dumb.   We should be spending more time focusing on population growth, sales tax growth, and attracting large employers like OKC instead of wondering why a larger city may  get an IKEA first.  We worry to much about losing our self perceived cool factor that we forget about the real important things that create a vibrant city.   What will attract sales tax growth, population growth and large employers?   We need to get our head of the sand and work harder to compete with OKC.   Sadly,  We are still pretty far behind.  What would we do with out Mr. Kaiser?  He has single handily been responsible for a significant portion of investment in this city (Guthrie Green, Brady District, Gathering Place and Etc.).  All of us need to do more to make this city where OTHERS want to live.  Who gives a crap about IKEA?  How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

Awesome first post.

I'm not buying you live in Tulsa. The ONE post that gets you to register an account is this Ikea thread? And you know nothing about Tulsa? See, two years ago the last Vision Tulsa vote and other recent bond issues have addressed basically every point you bring up.

First, Tulsa schools are not in the physical condition that OKC schools were/are as there have been regular bond issues to address building needs. The last one three years ago was almost a half billion dollar bond issue.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/tulsa-voters-approve-record-setting-school-bond-package/article_310450cd-146c-58f1-bc07-af723480ef0b.html
https://www.tulsaschools.org/connect-with-us/partner-with-us/bond-status-bids-proposals

I wish the Vision plan had more for public transportation, but it did start a permanent tax for public transit and funds a BRT line along Peoria and a transit hub.
https://ktul.com/news/local/new-bus-rapid-transit-service-coming-to-peoria-avenue

The Vision plan had a very large permanent tax for police and fire, more than $250 million, and adds 225 police and fire personnel
https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-vision-tax-working-as-tulsa-police-fire/article_aba6c883-efe2-5411-89cf-7382882fb78a.html

The last Vision plan also included  renovations to the convention center, on top of funds from Vision 2025. With $55 million from Vision the city has started removing the old arena and will be replacing it with new 40,000 square foot ballroom and new three story entrance to the convention center. This work goes with all the Vision 2025 work on the convention center from 10 years ago. Tulsa doesn't need a "new" convention center. As for a hotel, the convention center already has a convention hotel (The DoubleTree) along with two other onsite hotels (aLoft and Best Western). Those three hotels have 700 rooms and already exist. And plans have been floated THIS WEEK for another larger convention hotel as part of a huge new plan for the area around the arena. It's been all over the news, and talked about here. Funny how you missed that but got outraged over an IKEA post that is nonsense anyway. There is no IKEA going to either city. 
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/million-overhaul-of-cox-business-center-to-begin-this-week/article_42819c32-1457-59be-8b70-a671d1bf4a0f.html
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/final-public-meeting-on-arena-district-master-plan-set-for/article_bc40eb80-3859-5eb2-bddd-03cb9e2f1e7e.html

[Tulsasooner78]

Didn't intended to ruffle feathers.  I had a little Vino last night and went "hard" in the paint.   I am from OKC originally but lived here for 12 years 2001-2013 before my job took me back to OKC in 2013 and I am now back again as of June of this year.   I have read this thread since 2008 and OKC Talk as well but never post.  I do spend a lot of time in OKC and have close friends and family in both towns.  I LOVE both cities very much.   This thread hit me the wrong way as I was just recently speaking about this with some of my Tulsa associates in the film industry and we were having a lively discussion.   

Several of my hipster Tulsa friends were hung up on the  psychological impact of having IKEA in OKC but not Tulsa.  My point was it shouldn't matter either way.  Both cities should focus on creating a vibrant city where we retain our local talent and ATTRACT others to live here.  My definition of a vibrant city has a lot more to do with the three points I tried to make (sales tax growth, population growth,  and employer attraction/growth) than perception.  I believe we have a long way to go to narrow the gap with OKC in this regard. 

I work in commercial finance across the state and it frustrates me that lots of Tulsans I encounter are caught up with perception.  Both cities are great.  Let's appreciate them both.   

I apologize TulsaGoldenHurriCAN for insulting you and anyone else.  I will not type and drink the next time.

[Tulsasooner78]

I might also add that Pete at OKC Talk has been highly accurate with his reporting and I believe IKEA is in talks with OKC Regarding the Chisholm Creek location.   However, it is a long way away from abeing a done deal.  Just consider the initial long term talks with Costco back in 2012-2013.   I will also note I have first hand knowledge that IKEA has been sniffing around OKC for several years and prior to the Chisholm Creek site they were looking at an urban site in OKC.

[swake]

I might also add that Pete at OKC Talk has been highly accurate with his reporting and I believe IKEA is in talks with OKC Regarding the Chisholm Creek location.   However, it is a long way away from abeing a done deal.  Just consider the initial long term talks with Costco back in 2012-2013.   I will also note I have first hand knowledge that IKEA has been sniffing around OKC for several years and prior to the Chisholm Creek site they were looking at an urban site in OKC.

Sounds like Chisholm Creek might be wanting to try to create interest in Ikea, but it certainly doesn't seem like Ikea is interested in the United States, much less OKC. Ikea's new US stores announced for 2018:

Dublin, CA (Bay Area) Would be a third store in a metro area of 8.6 million - Not canceled but also not started
Ft Worth - Would be a third store in a metro of 7.4 million - Canceled
Glendale, AZ (Phoenix) Would be a second store in a metro of 4.5 million - Canceled
Cleveland - Would be first store in a metro of 3.5 million - Canceled
Broomfield, CO (Denver) Would be a second store in a metro of 3.3 million - Indefinitely delayed
Cary, ND (Raleigh-Durham) Would be first store in a metro of 2.1 million - Canceled
Nashville - Would be first store in a metro of 1.9 million - Canceled


The ONLY store they seem to be moving forward with in the US that wasn't already under construction as of May 2018 is the East Bay store in Dublin, CA, which has also not started construction.

They have nothing else announced for the US. At all. They list no US stores on their website as coming soon.

Ikea's corporate newsfeed for new US locations before 2018 posted regularly multiple times a month. They have two posts in all of 2018 and nothing since May.

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/about_ikea/newsroom/expansion_plans?pageNumber=2

Color me skeptical because Ikea certainly doesn't seem to be expanding the United States. They have canceled stores in much larger, wealthier and faster growing metros than Tulsa (1.1 million) or OKC (1.4 million).

[heironymouspasparagus]

Why do I get the feeling that this is gonna be the same kind of "all hype, no substance" thing as when Krispy Kreme came to town??   

I looked at all the pics of the Renton, WA store...I guess I don't appreciate "just stuff" as much as many do.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I might also add that Pete at OKC Talk has been highly accurate with his reporting and I believe IKEA is in talks with OKC Regarding the Chisholm Creek location.   However, it is a long way away from abeing a done deal.  Just consider the initial long term talks with Costco back in 2012-2013.   I will also note I have first hand knowledge that IKEA has been sniffing around OKC for several years and prior to the Chisholm Creek site they were looking at an urban site in OKC.

I may have to go to OKC Talk...they have "Eric"...  seems like a person in search of enlightenment.

And GaryOKC6... flat out lying, so I know he is a Trump Minion.   Saying his 401k has nearly doubled since Trump took office.   If it was strictly Amazon or Tesla, maybe yeah.  But no 401 is gonna have just those two options.  

Could be interesting as much time as I spend there.

[swake]

I may have to go to OKC Talk...they have "Eric"...  seems like a person in search of enlightenment.

And GaryOKC6... flat out lying, so I know he is a Trump Minion.   Saying his 401k has nearly doubled since Trump took office.   If it was strictly Amazon or Tesla, maybe yeah.  But no 401 is gonna have just those two options.  

Could be interesting as much time as I spend there.

Heironymouspasparagus you know "Eric" well, he's known as "erfalf" over here.

[Tulsasooner78]

Swake - Not to be a d**k, but you are incorrect.  Uber was in OKC first.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/technology/app-based-ride-service-uber-arrives-in-tulsa/article_40026e93-3a86-5928-8320-7611e4a06771.html

https://newsok.com/article/3895606/get-app-y-new-uber-car-service-arrives-in-oklahoma-city


Lyft launches at same time in both cities.

https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/24/lyft-24-new-cities/

https://newsok.com/article/4568534/lyft-joins-uber-in-oklahoma-city-as-officials-consider-regulating-ridesharing

[Laramie]

TIME OUT:

From Mayor Holt on Twitter:   https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1050408576982880257

https://youtu.be/iEw1E_UtjjE

Welcome your ideas...