The "this has nothing to do with Tulsa" mega-post

[Laramie]

Understand the grave concerns and the detrimental affect the unfair raw deals Tulsa has received from the State of Oklahoma in the past.  

Where do we go forward; how do we right those wrongs?  

I'm a forum guest; viewed many posts with legitimate concerns about how badly Tulsa was treated; admitting it was done to Tulsa time and time again.  

Is it fair to continue to bash OKC for past transgressions or to bash either city; no more fair than to bash Tulsa for the race riots of the 1920s.  How far must we go back; it's time to move forward; our history can't be changed or rectified; there is no remedy.

Talked to my ancestors on the family's black side who were promised 40 acres and a mule--what could we do with 40 acres now other than pay taxes on the land; only God knows what anyone would have need of a mule--it certainly can't produce more mules.  Brood about the past; focus that energy toward the stars.

Let us move on and highlight the developments our cities chart for tomorrow; make Tulsa & OKC a place of promise for our children's future and level the playing field.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Understand the grave concerns and the detrimental affect the unfair raw deals Tulsa has received from the State of Oklahoma in the past.  

Where do we go forward; how do we right those wrongs?  

I'm a forum guest; viewed many posts with legitimate concerns about how badly Tulsa was treated; admitting it was done to Tulsa time and time again.  

Is it fair to continue to bash OKC for past transgressions or to bash either city; no more fair than to bash Tulsa for the race riots of the 1920s.  How far must we go back; it's time to move forward; our history can't be changed or rectified; there is no remedy.

Talked to my ancestors on the family's black side who were promised 40 acres and a mule--what could we do with 40 acres now other than pay taxes on the land; only God knows what anyone would have need of a mule--it certainly can't produce more mules.  Brood about the past; focus that energy toward the stars.

Let us move on and highlight the developments our cities chart for tomorrow; make Tulsa & OKC a place of promise for our children's future and level the playing field.  

A LOT can be done on much less than 40 acres!!

Have friends who have made livings on 1/2 to 3 acres - and not growing marijuana, either!   Just can't do it with corn, soybeans, wheat, or cattle.   There are a lot of other things can be raised and grown on small plots that can do very well.

And Rogers County taxes on that 40 acres are about $85 a year... not great, but not onerous.  Bare land, AG zoned.  Don't know about Tulsa Cty.




As for how far to go back - good general question, for the entire gamut of human endeavor.  Israelis go back 2,000 years, but expect Palestinians to NOT go back even 80 years.  Right wingers go back to Clinton, but expect lefties not to go back to Bush or even Trump 5 days ago.  And most "originalists" pretty much wallow in the last 240 years - since 1776, but expect the black people and indigenous people to "get over it" - "it" being the last 400+ years...   As always, he who kills the most gets to write the history books.

The main point is - and always has been - to KNOW and UNDERSTAND history so there is at least a chance of doing better.  We, on the other, regress.  And still do pretty much nothing to level the playing field.  No meaningful change will occur until we follow the original plan... Oklahoma and Sequoyah.  Two state solution.  We would have been right at the edge.   Oh, and guess who opposed that to begin with - Republicontins, of course.

[TheArtist]

I feel like we have begun "turning the corner" so to speak.  Just hope we keep it up.  I think the "One Voice" initiative in which the Tulsa area unites around a few ideas and pushes and pushes and pushes for them, is a good start.  We just need to keep at it.

I can also like the general Republican "Less government and what government there is, closer to the people." ideals.  If they just really meant that, but at least we can push for it or call them out when they get hypocritical.  I would love to see the state cut taxes and allow cities, counties etc. to have more power to tax or do more with the taxes they already can levy (pay teachers more for instance).

There seems to be a dual path that has emerged in Tulsa.  1. The above, being more organized and weakening/working to get more power from the State. 2. Just forgetting about the State all together and doing our own thing via philanthropy, teaming up with local businesses, local organizations, etc. Just pretend like the State doesn't exist and rock and roll!

I created the gateway for the grand opening of the Gathering Place and was there behind the scenes to open the gates. I thought it was interesting watching the body language of the different dignitaries there that day. Kaiser was enjoying himself and had throngs of smiling people around him. Mary Fallin kind of stood around practically alone looking like she would have rather been anywhere else but there.  One of the greatest city parks in the nation and we were like, "Yea, this is what we did and can do on our own. What are you even doing here?"

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I created the gateway for the grand opening of the Gathering Place and was there behind the scenes to open the gates. I thought it was interesting watching the body language of the different dignitaries there that day. Kaiser was enjoying himself and had throngs of smiling people around him. Mary Fallin kind of stood around practically alone looking like she would have rather been anywhere else but there.  One of the greatest city parks in the nation and we were like, "Yea, this is what we did and can do on our own. What are you even doing here?"

Sounds a bit awkward. I can't imagine a less popular place for her to be!

And don't forget Mary Fallin, the most unpopular governor in the country, represented Oklahoma City's district in the state house before she got into state-wide offices. Might've been why Tulsa nominated a Tulsan over OKC's mayor this time around.


That was an awesome gate! Great job with the design that fit the styling of the park perfectly. I wish it was a permanent gate.

[Laramie]

IMO the country is getting tired of the current political climate.   The non career inexperienced politicians who come in don't know enough (especially those who have never held any government office) to avoid the early pitfalls.

We are in a time of challenge for National, State & Local governments.   In Mary Fallin's case, she wasn't dealt the best hand; there weren't any choices she made that would have produced good results--choose the lesser of evils.

Our state & cities will rebound; our biggest challenge will be the management of decisions while the economic climate is good.

[Laramie]

As a former teacher,  AFT union rep, junior college instructor & public school administrator, Oklahoma has always put teacher pay on the back burner.  This isn't a result of the last decade--goes back to the mid 70s.

If you plan to enter the teaching field (many intrinsic rewards) make sure you join an organization (OEA, AFT) with professional liability insurance benefits.   They're many quicksand pits; regardless of your good intentions could backfire and end your career.

[swake]

As a former teacher,  AFT union rep, junior college instructor & public school administrator, Oklahoma has always put teacher pay on the back burner.  This isn't a result of the last decade--goes back to the mid 70s.

If you plan to enter the teaching field (many intrinsic rewards) make sure you join an organization (OEA, AFT) with professional liability insurance benefits.   They're many quicksand pits; regardless of your good intentions could backfire and end your career.

Hostility to education in Oklahoma is a lot older than that. It was written into the state constitution. Remember the only bond issues that require a 60% supermajority are ones for education.

[Laramie]

Hostility to education in Oklahoma is a lot older than that. It was written into the state constitution. Remember the only bond issues that require a 60% supermajority are ones for education.

Far more of a concern is that some school districts aren't passing millage levies anymore since most of the children in the property areas affected do not have children in the schools.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City Streetcar testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ur9rZwQeIg

[swake]

Oklahoma City Streetcar testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ur9rZwQeIg

That looks just great, really a home run for OKC. I hope people in Tulsa are very jealous and demand something even better.

[Laramie]

That looks just great, really a home run for OKC. I hope people in Tulsa are very jealous and demand something even better.

Don't think it's a matter of jealousy. Tulsa has some hilly areas that remind me of San Fransisco, just not sure what areas would benefit from streetcar transit.  Your downtown street foot traffic wasn't destroyed by an underground concourse. 

A Tulsa modern streetcar system would IMHO be a success.

[Laramie]

Scissortail Park construction Downtown OKC:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBytF3D0KeQ


The $132 million downtown park will cover 70+ acres with a lower part of the park that will cross I-40 connected by the Skydance Pedestrian Bridge.


Myriad Botanical Gardens north of $132 million Scissortail Park & west of the new $288 million convention center.


Construction has begun on the  605 room Omni hotel with the convention center also under construction in the background. The $241 million project is a public-private partnership between Omni & the City. Oklahoma City wiil pay $85 million of the construction costs thru bonds paid of in 25 years.

There will be a enormous revitalization of both Oklahoma City & Tulsa over the next 10 years.  OKC passed $800 million in bonds that will replace & repair roads, streets, drainage & bridges over the next 10 years.

[swake]

Don't think it's a matter of jealousy. Tulsa has some hilly areas that remind me of San Fransisco, just not sure what areas would benefit from streetcar transit.  Your downtown street foot traffic wasn't destroyed by an underground concourse.  

A Tulsa modern streetcar system would IMHO be a success.

I'm not saying that  jealousy is part of anything yet. I'm hoping that there will be some jealousy once the system is up and running. Jealousy can be a powerful motivator. Tulsa tried for 10 years to get a new arena and voted new arenas down in 97 and 2000. Then The Ford Center opened in 2002 and suddenly Tulsa had to have an even better arena and in 2003 the vote for what became the BOK Center passed with 62% of the vote.

I expect that transit will be similar.

Each city pushes the other to be better, it's a good thing.

[SXSW]

I'm not saying that  jealousy is part of anything yet. I'm hoping that there will be some jealousy once the system is up and running. Jealousy can be a powerful motivator. Tulsa tried for 10 years to get a new arena and voted new arenas down in 97 and 2000. Then The Ford Center opened in 2002 and suddenly Tulsa had to have an even better arena and in 2003 the vote for what became the BOK Center passed with 62% of the vote.

I expect that transit will be similar.

Each city pushes the other to be better, it's a good thing.

Exactly, and I hope the OKC streetcar is a success and we can find a way to do something similar in Tulsa.  I like Bynum overall but he isn't a transit advocate and we need one in the mayor's office to get a project like that off the ground.

The Gathering Place absolutely had an impact on OKC wanting and now building a comparable urban park (Scissortail).  OKC also didn't have a RiverParks system so they built one basically from scratch and have done some things I wish we could be doing more of with our river (river cruises, dams with locks, boathouses, zipline, river rafting course, etc)

[swake]

Scissortail Park construction Downtown OKC:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBytF3D0KeQ


The $132 million downtown park will cover 70+ acres with a lower part of the park that will cross I-40 connected by the Skydance Pedestrian Bridge.


Myriad Botanical Gardens north of $132 million Scissortail Park & west of the new $288 million convention center.


Construction has begun on the  605 room Omni hotel with the convention center also under construction in the background. The $241 million project is a public-private partnership between Omni & the City. Oklahoma City wiil pay $85 million of the construction costs thru bonds paid of in 25 years.

There will be a enormous revitalization of both Oklahoma City & Tulsa over the next 10 years.  OKC passed $800 million in bonds that will replace & repair roads, streets, drainage & bridges over the next 10 years.

As for the new hotel and convention center. It looks very nice, but that's a ton of money be spent there. It seems to me that there will be a lot of lost opportunity with what that money could have been spent on. I'm not sure that spending huge dollars on convention faculties makes sense outside just a handful of cities.

The big shows go to the major tourist cities and there is zero way that Oklahoma City, or any similar city, can compete with places like Vegas, Orlando, Chicago and San Francisco. It's not an insult, it's just the truth. Even the Dallas-Ft Worth area, an "alpha" world city, struggles to attract conventions and they have 8 million people and one of the world's busiest and best connected airports. I hope it works, but OKC is gambling with a ton of public money.

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-ceo/2017/october/dallas-fort-worth-convention-center-hotel-growth/